City miles VS Highway miles.

[dan]

the sitting car subject sparked a thought in my mind, in addition i just got done driving in grand rapids and thought of how all the stopping and going was going too use my brakes and gas more made me come too think of a possible topic of discussion for ETCG1.

whats harder on a vehicle, driving constant highway miles on and on or dealing with the bussle and hustle of city stop and go traffic? i have my imput and here it is.

I believe that City miles are much harder on a car, the constant breaking uses the pads faster, the constant acceleration means more blowbuy gasses passing the rings into your oil. i have noticed city roads are very rough most of the time and that is hard on suspension, bearings, constant acceleration is harder on tires as well as breaking. while highway driving and freeway driving the car stays at a more constant speed yet it needs too slow down and speed up on occasion, this is good because the engine stays at a more constant RPM but allows it too very up and down a little, brakes seem too be used more gently more or less too slow down the car and bring it too a stop on occasion, and with the acception of the back roads of the country or bad city freeways and highways it seems highways and freeways are smoother and easier on suspension components as there are also less sharp corners and bumps…

whats your imput eric? good discussion for ETCG1?

Topic

[EricTheCarGuy]

Agreed, that would be a good discussion. Thanks for the input. I’ve got a few ETCG1’s already in the hopper, but once that cycles done, I’ll look into shooting this one.

Thanks again.

[Lorrin Barth]

Owner’s manuals and service manuals break down maintenance into normal and severe conditions with severe conditions naturally requiring shorter maintenance intervals. Well, I’d argue that driving in town, even if only down to the corner market, falls under severe usage. Others disagree. So, what exactly constitutes severe conditions could be part of the discussion.

[EricTheCarGuy]

[quote=”barneyb” post=100454]Owner’s manuals and service manuals break down maintenance into normal and severe conditions with severe conditions naturally requiring shorter maintenance intervals. Well, I’d argue that driving in town, even if only down to the corner market, falls under severe usage. Others disagree. So, what exactly constitutes severe conditions could be part of the discussion.[/quote]

I don’t know if this ties in or if it’s a video that stands on it’s own.

Thanks for the input.

[dan]

[quote=”barneyb” post=100454]Owner’s manuals and service manuals break down maintenance into normal and severe conditions with severe conditions naturally requiring shorter maintenance intervals. Well, I’d argue that driving in town, even if only down to the corner market, falls under severe usage. Others disagree. So, what exactly constitutes severe conditions could be part of the discussion.[/quote]

didn’t say short trip too the store but in fact you see many times a short trip is even bad because this doesn’t allow time for the engines positive crank case ventilation system too remove any condensation from the engine during warm up, this is especually true in cold weather, during start up the engine runs richer and the PCM has not yet gone into closed loop operation completely.. it is better too drive your car for a little while and let it do some work than start it up immediatly drive it and then stop a few minutes later.

driving in the city requires a lot of stopping, accelerating and turning, accelerating more often means more blow buy gasses into the crank case, it means more wear on the transmission for more continual shifting and in the case of the manual more wear on the clutch, it means more wear on CV shafts as they are more continually put under the stress of acceleration, it means more wear on the tires. breaking more often uses the pads more quickly, requires more operation of the breaking system such as calipers master cylinder ect, turning puts more stress on the outer Constant velocity joints, tie rod ends and ball joints. when going at a steady speed down the road the transmission stays in a certain gear, typically OD and torque converter clutch engauged for a automatic, or just OD for a manual and the clutch is not operated as much, the car makes gradual turns usually and there is less blow buy gasses in the oil from less continuous acceleration.

now keep in mind yes this isn’t like comparing a nice sunday stroll on a nice smooth highway too driving down some washboard bumpy dusty and sometimes muddy dirt back road, but i truly believe there is a slight difference.

[dan]

don’t mean too bump a old post eric but i got some stuff for you that may help this suggestin along… when i did the engine mount for my car i got a Haynes repair manual for my car and in the maintenance section this is what i found.

if a vehicle tows a trailer or operates in primarily stop and go conditions (in other words city driving.)check the brakes every 3,000 miles or 3 months, if operated under one or more of the following conditions change the automatic transaxle fuid every 15,000 miles in heavy city traffic where the outside temprature regularly reaches 90F (32C)

brake inspections rule of thumb if i am not mistaken is every 6,000 miles not 3,000 miles, (every other oil change, with the tire rotatin.) as well as the specified transmission fluid change interval for my vehicle is specified at 30,000 miles, and this manual is suggesting in heavy city traffic that gets hot, too change the fluid in HALF that time…

if repair manuals are telling me this, there must be some truth too that theory…

Hope this was helpful.

[EricTheCarGuy]

Thanks for the input. If and when I get a chance to make this video I’ll be sure to incorporate that information.

Thanks again.

[Gary]

[quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=100438]the sitting car subject sparked a thought in my mind, in addition i just got done driving in grand rapids and thought of how all the stopping and going was going too use my brakes and gas more made me come too think of a possible topic of discussion for ETCG1.

whats harder on a vehicle, driving constant highway miles on and on or dealing with the bussle and hustle of city stop and go traffic? i have my imput and here it is.

I believe that City miles are much harder on a car, the constant breaking uses the pads faster, the constant acceleration means more blowbuy gasses passing the rings into your oil. i have noticed city roads are very rough most of the time and that is hard on suspension, bearings, constant acceleration is harder on tires as well as breaking. while highway driving and freeway driving the car stays at a more constant speed yet it needs too slow down and speed up on occasion, this is good because the engine stays at a more constant RPM but allows it too very up and down a little, brakes seem too be used more gently more or less too slow down the car and bring it too a stop on occasion, and with the acception of the back roads of the country or bad city freeways and highways it seems highways and freeways are smoother and easier on suspension components as there are also less sharp corners and bumps…

whats your imput eric? good discussion for ETCG1?[/quote]
In almost all cases, I agree that highway driving is easier on an engine/driveline/suspension than city driving however, like everything else there are exceptions. For example, a 454 with a 4 speed manual tranny with no overdrive and a very low final gear ratio(4.10); at 60 MPH I am already running at 2900 RPMS on the highway in my highest gear(4th 1:1 ratio with the 4.10s reduction) and have a stroke of 4 inches which equates to a good amount of wear on the highway since the piston has to travel great distance in the bore at a high RPM(especially at 75 mph!). Big block motors naturally don’t like high rpms due to the length of the stroke among other factors. 4.10s dont help the situation 😛

[dan]

your vehicle is a special case really, its of a older design and people really didn’t care for fuel economy and because of the way engines where built back in the day you where lucky too see a car get 100,000 miles largely because of gear ratios, building materials, and carburretors choke allowed excessive fuels that sort of soaked the rings during a cold start. this puts heavy wear on the engine this is true! 3,000RPM doing 60 is no surprise too me when it comes too the old 1:1 ratio four speeds with a final drive probably geared for towing. VERY valid point, perhaps it also depends on the vehicle too!

but todays vehicles like my Pontiac grand prix will do roughly 2,000RPM at 80 and with over drive and a torque converter clutch its built too sip gas when it cruises, but once you start driving city, and especially with a heavy foot, it starts too go from sip too drink.

[Gary]

Very very true. The torque converter lockup clutch and overdrive certainly helps keep fuel mileage up(for automatics) and wear down. Yes in older vehicles case which was the exception to the city/highway rule especially for my C30 camper special most of the wear occurs at highway speeds and in first gear(2nd with granny low). The happy place with low rear gearing seems to be 35-50 mph in 1:1 with no option of OD. Its hard to debate the points about the suspension and brakes though, most of the wear regardless of vehicle age/type occurs in city/stop and go driving. Like Eric has said in one of his videos though, older vehicles are much easier to repair if something does go wrong B)

[dan]

[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=102907]Very very true. The torque converter lockup clutch and overdrive certainly helps keep fuel mileage up(for automatics) and wear down. Yes in older vehicles case which was the exception to the city/highway rule especially for my C30 camper special most of the wear occurs at highway speeds and in first gear(2nd with granny low). The happy place with low rear gearing seems to be 35-50 mph in 1:1 with no option of OD. Its hard to debate the points about the suspension and brakes though, most of the wear regardless of vehicle age/type occurs in city/stop and go driving. Like Eric has said in one of his videos though, older vehicles are much easier to repair if something does go wrong B)[/quote]

amen, simple carberreted engines with distributor ignition, very easy too work on, especually a Ford 300 Inline 6, my favorite inline 6 engine hands down, that thing is so easy too work on and its a straight six, so much room, even the old 350s 427s 454s just dropped right in there, so easy too work on! heard a guy could do a clutch change in 45 minutes once, that would be INSANE!

some “highway.” driving is at 45-50MPH but thats more of the old back roads, most highways are 55 but lets face it people regularly travel 60-65MPH and no one cares, freeway is 70MPH but lets once again face it 80-90MPH is a regular thing in big cities like Detroit, that stuff gets scary but exciting! that would really put a hurting on your truck, but my car would probably not mind that too much as it will do 80 smooth as glass cruising along, i am sure your truck would be screaming at about 3,250 3,500RPM at 80 or more! maybe even 4,000! so once again bringing up a very interesting point, but i guess once the clutch trans or engine wears out it will be easier too change in your truck too!

[Gary]

[quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=102914][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=102907]Very very true. The torque converter lockup clutch and overdrive certainly helps keep fuel mileage up(for automatics) and wear down. Yes in older vehicles case which was the exception to the city/highway rule especially for my C30 camper special most of the wear occurs at highway speeds and in first gear(2nd with granny low). The happy place with low rear gearing seems to be 35-50 mph in 1:1 with no option of OD. Its hard to debate the points about the suspension and brakes though, most of the wear regardless of vehicle age/type occurs in city/stop and go driving. Like Eric has said in one of his videos though, older vehicles are much easier to repair if something does go wrong B)[/quote]

amen, simple carberreted engines with distributor ignition, very easy too work on, especually a Ford 300 Inline 6, my favorite inline 6 engine hands down, that thing is so easy too work on and its a straight six, so much room, even the old 350s 427s 454s just dropped right in there, so easy too work on! heard a guy could do a clutch change in 45 minutes once, that would be INSANE!

some “highway.” driving is at 45-50MPH but thats more of the old back roads, most highways are 55 but lets face it people regularly travel 60-65MPH and no one cares, freeway is 70MPH but lets once again face it 80-90MPH is a regular thing in big cities like Detroit, that stuff gets scary but exciting! that would really put a hurting on your truck, but my car would probably not mind that too much as it will do 80 smooth as glass cruising along, i am sure your truck would be screaming at about 3,250 3,500RPM at 80 or more! maybe even 4,000! so once again bringing up a very interesting point, but i guess once the clutch trans or engine wears out it will be easier too change in your truck too![/quote]
They sure are! The Ford 300 I6 is easy to work on for sure too and lets not forget about the 4.0L Jeep I6! All the old motors just dropped in and could be worked on so easily(I literally sat on my inside fender under the hood doing a tuneup there is so much room even with the massive 454! I try to avoid highway driving and go country roads and back roads instead which is easy to do since I live many miles from the actual city and everything I need is around where I live and work. Most I go in my truck is 70 MPH and I rarely push it beyond that. Your Pontiac probably would even be comfortable at 100! The clutch on my truck is very simple and easy (mechanical clutch and I have full access without moving anything around much). For the engine I could probably rebuild the thing while its still in the truck! How much mileage does your Pontiac get highway?

[dan]

30MPG highway 25-20MPG City, but it all depends on how you drive it, and will it cruse at 100, maybe… 😉

[Gary]

Impressive! beats my 8-9 city and 10-12 highway(depending on MPH and engine speed of course).I’m surprised your 3800 V6 is that good on mileage

[dan]

i think a common missconception about the 3800 is since its a larger displacement V6 made of all cast iron that it would suck on gas, truly i think why it is so good on fuel is because it doesn’t have too work that hard too pull the car, and in fact the weight difference between the 3800 V6 and later 3500 3900 60 degree V6 engines is very minute, because of the low end torque and power the engine makes it allows it too pull the car at low revs with very little effort, therefore it can get 30MPG if you are liberal with the accelerator, but that can change quickly if you get on it.

that is another thing that i think shows how city vs highway miles effect a vehicle, how your City fuel economy is less than the highway fuel economy because the engine has too do more work too constantly accelerate, if it has too work harder and use more fuel, wouldn’t you think it would be harder on the engine and put more wear on it? as for your truck simply the way it is geared its probably better too stay at a steady cruise betwenn 40-50MPH.

[Gary]

Those were my thoughts exactly about the 3800. What is the rear gearing on your Pontiac?

[Author]

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