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A Choice at the pump would be great INCLUDING 0 ethanol gasoline. Normally I don’t mind running e10, you lose a slight bit of economy, but the effects on the fuel systemengine itself are minimal other then that. The main issue i have with ethanol is with small engine’s that were never designed to run it (dirtbikes, chainsaw’s, lawn mowers etc.) As well as for storage, gas with ethanol in it has a drastically reduced shelf life due to the extra water it absorbs, If i’m parking a vehicle over the winter (or longer) I want a full tank of 100% gasoline.
I love ethanol. I just modified my Mitsubishi Evolution IX to run ethanol.
I run 2 fuel pumps – One runs the car normally, the second one kicks in when my turbo gets up to 16psi (you need 30% more fuel when you run ethanol)
I upgraded my factory injectors (original ones are 560cc, I now have 1800cc injectors – I think 1800cc equates to 172lb injectors)I am able to get 16 degrees of extra timing at redline, I raised the electronic limiter from 7500 to 8500 on my engine.
I run more turbo boost as well (33psi on ethanol instead of 27psi on 93 octane gasoline)previously I would test my ethanol at the pump with a fuel tester. Simply put, you put e85, and water in a beaker and it seperates the gasoline from the ethanol showing you the mix percentage)
I recently replaced my fuel return line with some custom plumbing that sends the fuel through a ethanol sensor that measures the resistance of the fuel to determine the ethanol content. I am in the process of installing the gauge for this sensor on the dash (so I can read it live) as well as hopefully flashing my ECU to modulate the fuel injector pulsewidth so I don’t have to flip a switch between my gasoline and ethanol tunes.
Link to project here: http://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/5-Engine-Modifications/60191-my-mitsubishi-evo-ix-flex-fuel-setup
The only problem I have had is that the extra boost seams to want to pop off hoses. I have been using hair-spray on my hose connections along with zip ties to help keep them together (small rubber hoses) The big ones all have bolt-clamps and hold well.
now for the results, on e85 the car makes roughly 690hp, while on the gasoline (93 octane) tune it makes only 550hp.
Ethanol is the “crack-cocaine” of fuels for turbo cars because the with the additional raw torque you can get it’s addicting and you can’t stop using it.
My fuel mileage is about 17mpg, compared to about 24mpg on gas.
[quote=”Will5757″ post=149102]A Choice at the pump would be great INCLUDING 0 ethanol gasoline. Normally I don’t mind running e10, you lose a slight bit of economy, but the effects on the fuel systemengine itself are minimal other then that. The main issue i have with ethanol is with small engine’s that were never designed to run it (dirtbikes, chainsaw’s, lawn mowers etc.) As well as for storage, gas with ethanol in it has a drastically reduced shelf life due to the extra water it absorbs, If i’m parking a vehicle over the winter (or longer) I want a full tank of 100% gasoline.[/quote]
Also – If you keep the ethanol sealed right – this does not happen like you say. I kept ethanol for a full year in a glass smuckers jar – and it tested the exact same when I opened it after 8 months. – Like you say during storage, I wouldn’t chance it but I’ve had good results starting this particular car once a week and letting it warm up to operating temperature.
[quote=”divide_by_zero” post=149110]I kept ethanol for a full year in a glass smuckers jar…[/quote]
Too bad a vehicle’s fuel system isn’t a Smuckers jar.
Personally, when I blended fuel, versus Regular gas, I notice no difference in mpg, or performance. I am like Eric, I have a bit of a mixed viewpoint on this topic. Even when I drive my 4 cylinder Terrain, or my 6 cylinder Ranger or Grand Cherokee, there is no difference, even if I use the vehicle hard. The only difference that will be significant, would be in a small engine like a 2 stroke lawn mower engine, because they aren’t designed to take the new ethanol fuel.
Eric, I think some of the comments are right on, Maybe you should consider an E85 build for the Ford Engine. Very High Compression +E85 makes for higher horsepower and Torque than running on Gasoline of any grade since E85 has a 105 Octane index, so a 14:1 C/R would be awesome. Be sure to go all Forged components if you go this route. 🙂
Every Small Engine built in the USA since 1998 is designed to run E10 fuel. If you still run a 2 cycle from before that time, I would love to know what brand and model it is. ALso, when you run between 20-30% Ethanol, A standard Gas engine can not tell the difference and will get identical mpg. The reason, I suspect that the US standard is 10% is because that is the mix rate that burns more fuel, and Oil companies love selling more fuel, if the mix was mandated to be 20% you would see mpg increase on all road cars, which is not in Big Oils best interest.
I had E85 in a flex fuel truck in storage for two years.. After charging the battery, it fired right up, no issues at all. It had a new Fuel cap before I put it in storage. Ethanol doesnt go bad like gas, and if one has a good sealed fuel system, it wont run into any issues. However, E85 even in a sealed jar, turns ever so slightly due to the small amount of gasoline that turns to varnish, but that has no effect on the Alcohol, just turns it slightly darker, similar to a straw color instead of clear..
if you have a sealed fuel system, like all cars built after 1996, it wont absorb water. Also, Gasoline has a shelf life of 45 days, even with stabilizer, it is only 90 days after that time, it will varnish and be completely nonburnable and clog every single filter you have. Ethanol at 85% will keep for years if you use more than a rag to seal your fuel system. Also All Small Engines built after 1996 are designed for E10. If you are still using a chainsaw, leaf blower of weedeater after 20 years, I want to know the brand and model… because nothing I have ever owned and used regularly has lasted more than a few years due to crappy chinese parts that cast more to fix than a new, that if they can even be fixed as most cant anymore.
I’ve long been confused by the purpose of blended fuels. Both ethanol and methanol have lower energy density than gasoline, so blending either one with gasoline results in a fuel with less energy per gallon than straight gasoline.
The one big bonus both of these fuels have over gasoline is their higher octane rating. However, since the typical engine is optimized for gasoline combustion, (and therefore operates at a lower compression ratio than pure ethanol or methanol would allow), the octane benefits of ethanol and methanol don’t get utilized in a blended fuel.
I suspect the true value of blended fuels is “green-washing”, where consumers get to feel all warm and cuddly about their choices.
With a naturally aspirated “normal compression ratio” engine I can also make gains with advanced timing, and leaner lamba mixtures under high load cells of the PCM.
If you’ve got a turbo, turn up the boost and make sure it is dyno tested because e85 won’t knock like 93 octane (you need to make sure you don’t surpass MBT)
As for e85 being greener- it really is cleaner on your engine (mostly the valves and intake system) as there is a lot less black soot when you tear down an ethanol engine. If you’ve ever torn down an engine with a coolant leak into a combustion cylinder you might know what I mean- say from a leaky head gasket. The cylinders leaking coolant into them look much cleaner from the water exposure. Ethanol has the same affect (e85 i mean, not e10)
When I rebuilt a head (for someone else) this summer and had it CNCd the valves looked almost clean enough to eat off after about 2 years use with e85. Think about it – alcohol is a great cleaning liquid
One thing about conventional gasoline is the lubrication which really cleans the fuel injectors (that’s why I run a tank of 93 every so often to clean the residue that can sometimes build up on fuel injectors for cars that have been modified to run e85)
One could also be said of the backing of your statement to be black washed, where if it was ok in 1885, it is ok today. I honestly prefer to make things better and ore efficient. Gone are the days of 12mpg and 8:1 compression ratios, because they are inefficient and they emit extreme levels of pollution. If engines were updated to run such high octanes, catalytic converters would be a thing of the past, because an E85 engine produces only 33% of the emissions, most of that being from the 15% gasoline mix with a converter, than E85 without a converter. No converter means less restriction and more power, same as compression, that is why diesels are so efficient because of their 18-22:1 compression. Why light duty engines have not been modernized in their efficiency since the 1920’s is beyond me. Compression is nearly the same as it was then, the tunnel vision of making gas burn better has reached it limit. Now they are looking to reduce car weight, and add compression with Turbos which is 10X more expensive then just stroking already made engines to achieve a compression ration of 14-15:1 which runs on E85. They have been proven time and time again they are more efficient than gas engines and produce over 30% more power than gasoline, which pure gasoline only has 62 octane, the rating of 87 or higher is NOT due to Gasoline, it is due to toxic Aromatics added to the gasoline. Pure Gas, went away in the 1920s when compression rations rose. Now Aromatics are being looked at the same as Lead was, and I am sure the Black Washed minds will reject the ideas just like they did when lead was removed from gasoline. As far as component durability, E85 , like any other solvent, such as Benzene, Toluene, Xylene, Acetone etc, will not harm any component of a modern auto system unless you use a rag for a gas cap, then any way will harm the system, even if you use gasoline. One difference, Ethanol will still burn when water some is absorbed, Gasoline doesn’t absorb water, thus you will pick it up in raw form from the sending unit, and completely trash the fuel system from the engine back to the tank. That is why the whole HEET additive and Gasoline and fuel injection additive industry is a billion dollar industry. E85 does the same thing, and would put a LOT of these companies out of business.
Though Gasoline will not clean Injectors.. By the way, there is no need for lubrication on injectors, the pin needles dont require it and the mechanism that moves it is sealed. The residue you speak of is usually the massive amounts of varnish that gasoline created on the fuel tank and fuel pump and filter. E85 itself is a cleaner. If you clean the tank and change the fuel filter, the line varnish should go away with a little use. A lot of people blame E85 for clogging things, when they fail to notice that its really the Junk Gas that caused all the problems to start with. If you look at a Vehicle that has never run gasoline at more than 15% concentration, the parts never turn color, even after 100,000 miles. I would never run Gasoline with a setup you have…there really is no need to be honest. BTW, your setup sounds awesome. I have never seen a 2.3L running 690hp with gas.. because its impossible. Any2.3L that do, run a form of Alcohol of Aviation gas, shich is loosely labeled “gas” since there is so little in it.
[quote=”Yuuki” post=149389]…They have been proven time and time again they are more efficient than gas engines and produce over 30% more power than gasoline,…[/quote]
Are you sure we aren’t comparing apples to oranges here?
Ethanol and methanol contain less energy than gasoline. In separate engines that are optimized for gasoline, ethanol and methanol, if you compare their BSFCs, you’ll find that the 30% power increase comes from burning a heck of a lot more ethanol or methanol compared to the gasoline engine’s consumption.
What this means in the real world is that pound-for-pound and gallon-for-gallon, gasoline produces more power and will carry you farther than ethanol or methanol.
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