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Ok, to start off with, I am no expert on surgery, but here is what I have been told. When a doctor performs a critical surgery like a heart or brain surgery that somebody’s life depends on, there is a tool guy in the operating room (in scrubs, of course), with a cabinet full of top notch doctor type of tools, and I guess this stuff is REALLY expensive (tool guy stays with the box) , so I think the surgeon pays for the use of the tools, which as you can imagine have to be the best, or somebody dies. Anyway, so little did some know, high end doctors have tool guys too, just in rooms instead of trucks. Anyway, that is not a joke. Here is where I am going, if you saw your doctor at harbor freight stocking up on the cheap scissors, razors blades, and what not, would you not be a little worried ? Some forget that peoples lives also depend on their cars working, properly, if not, the driver of the car could very well be killed just as the patient mentioned above. So are Truck tools not worth the extra cost ? Could you imagine the surgeons mentioned above wanted to cheap out and bring in their own cheap china tools in to surgery to save a buck. They would out of a job in an hour if they didn’t kill somebody first.. Why are mechanics so much different ? I do believe that truck tools are expensive, but its lifetime investment, a way to keep customers vehicles in top notch shape, keep them on the road, keep the tech’s food on the table. A mechanic could be viewed as a car doctor or car surgeon of sorts, and so of course in the medical field quality always trumps price with equipment, so why should shops be so much different. There is such a stunning difference in USA made truck tools vs crap from a discount store that has no place in a shop. So why a professional tech would even consider using cheap tools anymore than a brain surgeon would use Scissors from Kmart is beyond me. Of course Snap-on is expensive, its the best stuff, everybody knows it, and they obviously get their prices. As Eric mentioned in at least one video, one should get the best tools he or she can afford. Cheap tools are like cancer.
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Quality isn’t always relative to price tag. If pay close attention, you can see that a lot of the stuff the trucks sell you is somebody else’s stuff with their logo on it anyway, You’re literally buying the name in so many cases. While Snap On is more of the exception, their stuff still breaks too. So if a doctor can save your life with a five dollar tool just as well as he could with the same fifty dollar tool, why sweat the price tag of the scissors? This reminds me of an old story I got in an email once about how NASA spent millions of dollars to develop and design a new ball point pen because regular pens wouldn’t write in space. The Russians just used a pencil.
So whats wrong with buying the name ? I don’t see calenders and mugs with Harbor Frieght girls on them. Snap on stuff does break, but its usually like this, a 1/4 ratchet with 3 adaptors and a cheater of about 9 feet that wouldn’t take a headbolt off a Cat 370 engine and the tech is mad at the tool for breaking. Not the tools fault, user error more often. Doctors don’t risk peoples lives with cheap tools, so them stepping down to plastic dinnerware for procedures is non issue. Granted you are right, there is some rebranded stuff, a ripoff indeed, but I am speaking of genuine products made by snap on, not bathtowels and plastic chairs with logos.
I’m not sure the analogy is that accurate as unless you’re working on the car while it’s driving there isn’t any risk to the customer if the jobs done right cheap tools or not sure they make break or round a bolt but if the jobs done right it doesn’t matter what tools you use as long as you’re using the correct tools for the job.
That being said As an owner of cheap tools I personally think there a sound investment They allowed me to get a lot more for my money then buying S/O and therefore able to tackle a wider range of jobs, Sure I’m slowly replacing the cheapy stuff with good quality tools but the cheapy stuff is all of reasonable quality and goes into my home box.
Assuming the quality of the tool has no end result in the final workmanship of the job is erroneous. For example, if you are building an engine, and it spins about 9000 rpms, and if the rods are even a little bit too tight, or a little too loose, that sucker is coming apart (costing many times more than the higher cost of better tools), would you rather torque the rods down with a hand calibrated Snap-on torque wrench made in the USA, or something that comes over from DonggongWong in groups of hundreds on a pallet wrapped in shrink wrap ?
or having to spend 100s of thousands of dollars getting hand or face reconstructive surgery because a cheap air tool turned in a grenade under pressure. I would rather spend the extra few hundred dollars on US tools and be safe. I watched a chinese air fitting actually blow apart whipping the air hose in every direction. Now if that hose has whipped on a customers car, it would have cost a bunch of money to repair the paint damage. Most shops wouldn’t even risk such a thing with cheap tools.
Well all our torque wrenches have to be hand calibrated Before we are allowed to use them in the workshop same for all measurement and electrical tools. none of my torque wrenches are snap on they look exactly like snap on have the same range and the same accuracy but cost about 1/3rd of the price
But what you’re saying is if a freak accident occurs it might not of happened if more expensive tools where being used maybe but ruling out all tools that are not tool truck brands because a freak accident seems a little extreme half the bluepoint stuff is made in china and is sold under other makes same goes for matco and to some extent mac and snap on.
I wouldnt use or buy China bluepoint. I have a Japanese Blue point 1/4 air ratchet from decades ago, but thats not taking bulldozer lug nuts off, ya know what I mean. I am not saying all tool truck stuff is good, no, but all good tools comes off a tool truck, yes. The only reason I have a face left and eyeballs to see this screen, and hands to type with, is because they haven’t been blown to bits by cheap DongGuongWang built air tools. I plan to keep that way too. There is a video online of a guy who’s hydraulic press exploded under pressure and actually put the shrapnel through his abdomin, and yes he died. Shame, that press was probably made in a sweatshop converted from a rice paddy with poor quality metal and he paid the ultimate price for a cheap tool. Cheap, non truck tools are poison. What do you use for torque Wrenches ? CDI ? They are the same as Snap-on but with an oriental head piece, which I wouldn’t trust with my engines. I saw lifts for sale through Harbor Freight, talk about putting ones life at risk, wow.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=129327]Assuming the quality of the tool has no end result in the final workmanship of the job is erroneous. For example, if you are building an engine, and it spins about 9000 rpms, and if the rods are even a little bit too tight, or a little too loose, that sucker is coming apart (costing many times more than the higher cost of better tools), would you rather torque the rods down with a hand calibrated Snap-on torque wrench made in the USA, or something that comes over from DonggongWong in groups of hundreds on a pallet wrapped in shrink wrap ?[/quote] I have Snap-On torque wrenches for this reason. However, I have Craftsman(USA Made of course), MAC, Gearwrench, IR, Dewalt, and a few others for the rest. Quality comes in all shapes and sizes. I use SO for precision tools…nothing more.
Andrew, your exaggerations are phenomenal. By your standards, it’s unacceptable, if not life threatening, for a kid to deliver you a pizza in anything less than a Cadillac even though a Corolla would do the same job.
Buying the name…This is straight out of the Mac tools catalog. It costs about $160 off the truck. It’s literally a rebranded Mastercool set (part number 91000a) that you can find for $80 to $100 online. Snap On isn’t any better. They’ve got an “approved products” catalog that will sell you Lisle tools still branded as Lisle tools, but at Snap On prices. You can buy Lisle tools at any auto parts stores, Sears, Farm & Fleet, and on & on. They have a lot of great tools that you don’t have to spend truck price money on. Names on calendars and coffee mugs is totally irrelevant to this conversation.
You brought up user error and I can agree with you on this one somewhat. Most nuts and bolts get rounded by sockets not because of tool quality, but user error. A person still needs to be smarter than the tool they’re using. I usually find nuts and bolts rounded because somebody didn’t make sure the socket fully covered the fastener. You can’t blame a Harbor Freight socket for that.
In my experience with Snap On, they’re not that great a tool. Don’t get me wrong, I like my Snap On stuff, but it’s far from being the greatest anything I’ve ever owned. I have a set of their semi deep well sockets that I bought about three years ago and I’ve warrantied three of those sockets for cracks. The larger majority of my sockets are Mac & Craftsman. I’ve warrantied five sockets out of my Craftsman over the last ten and just one of my Mac sockets in the same ten years. Those non Snap On sockets have seen infinitely more use than the Snap On sockets. I bought the ¼ drive swivel head ratchet from Snap On about seven years ago off the truck for $88 and it immediately needed a new head installed. It got stolen from me and I replaced it last year to the cost of $109 and it also immediately needed the head repaired. Another interesting little something I encountered off the Snap On truck was when I bought a set of long reach torx sockets. The dealer said they were regularly priced at $319 when he sold them to me for $129. I asked him if they were discontinuing the sockets or if there was a defect on the set. He said Snap On set the price and that they’d offer random sale prices like that on occasion. He also said he was still making money on the sale. So it could be said that buying the name to buy the name is saying you enjoy price gouging.
You know, you have some points, yes.. here is the problem, if you say I walk into a shop and I have a Waterloo Box, or Us General, the younger techs are gonna laugh their asses off. Older guys in my opinion don’t usually give a crap. Although I had mentioned in my other post that when I was younger the shop owner actually threw all my tools in the trash and told me to only use Snap-on tools in his shop. When I finally left, all I had was one SK ratchet left. I still have it incidently. Anyway, I did get by with junk tools for many decades. But anymore, to me, it is completely about posters, clocks, chairs, hats, everything around that can assure me no younger techs will laugh their asses off at my toolbox if they happen to see it. Otherwise all my Lisle, OTC, Harbor Freight what have you might get pitched in shop dumpster in the event I get a different place to work.
[quote=”andrewbutton442″ post=129390]You know, you have some points, yes.. here is the problem, if you say I walk into a shop and I have a Waterloo Box, or Us General, the younger techs are gonna laugh their asses off. Older guys in my opinion don’t usually give a crap. Although I had mentioned in my other post that when I was younger the shop owner actually threw all my tools in the trash and told me to only use Snap-on tools in his shop. When I finally left, all I had was one SK ratchet left. I still have it incidently. Anyway, I did get by with junk tools for many decades. But anymore, to me, it is completely about posters, clocks, chairs, hats, everything around that can assure me no younger techs will laugh their asses off at my toolbox if they happen to see it. Otherwise all my Lisle, OTC, Harbor Freight what have you might get pitched in shop dumpster in the event I get a different place to work.[/quote] 1983 Craftsman drill, made in the USA and given to me by my dad after he used it since 83′ professionally for INDUSTRIAL purposes(he no longer works hard labor due to health issues). Still being used to this day by me PROFESSIONALLY and outdoes the best SO drills. Old craftsman is just as good if not better than SO. I wouldn’t trade this drill for any SO and will continue to use it and hopefully pass it onto my kid when I get around to having one. Having a truck brand does not define quality. I respect you Andrew and I do agree Craftsman stuff made in china is sup-par if not total junk for our trade. However, why should I care if someone laughs at my made in the USA assortment of tools that consist of multiple brands? It gets the job done, and well.
For me I could care less about who’s name is on the tool as long as it does the job and can do it reliably time after time. I have Craftsman, Lisle, KD, etc., tools that have been getting the job done day in and day out. I also don’t like spending money when I don’t need to. I used to have a SO split beam torque wrench until I found Precision Instruments wrenches. USA made and less than half the price, as far as I know they are the ones who used to make the SO split beams. Anyone who would throw out another techs tools based on the name deserves one thing, a good swift kick in the butt.
Speaking of old Craftsman, here is mine. 3 generations later and still getting the job done….
My Grampa was around before electricity, so he had one of these. I inherited, but it got lost. I wonder if I took into a dealership today and started using on a car engine if all the young know it all techies with the snap on Epiq boxes and their revolving credit accounts and all the other stuff would laugh at me.
@Cam: First off welcome to the forum. Cool drill! Looks like we are both using vintage Craftsman on the job.
@Andrew: Thats really cool. Man, who cares if the young techs laugh? I would rather keep tools my dad gave me going…it’s like a legacy. Call me sentimental but I love the tools my dad gave me. I have an antifreeze tester he gave me that he bought in the 70s…I’ll have to take a picture of it for y’all on Monday.Also, I was wondering if y’all knew anything about a particular brand of tool he gave me. He got’em in the mid 70s. They are opening box end wrenches. The manufacturer is Imperial USA..all SAE. Apparently the company went out of business a decade or so ago as the USA started to lose manufacturing jobs. They are made in Chicago IL. Here is a picture I have of them:
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=129451]
Also, I was wondering if y’all knew anything about a particular brand of tool he gave me. He got’em in the mid 70s. They are opening box end wrenches. The manufacturer is Imperial USA..all SAE. Apparently the company went out of business a decade or so ago as the USA started to lose manufacturing jobs. They are made in Chicago IL. Here is a picture I have of them:[/quote]
I just did a search and found an Imperial Tools website, looks to be the same logo and tools you have listed as 195-F Kwik-Tite ratchet wrenches. Main page shows as being American made since 1905. Looks like those would come in real handy working on AC lines and hyd. fittings.
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