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Hello, I’ve been using the clear flood mode on our 2013 dart for about 3-4 seconds. So I can prime the oiling system so that I can reduce metal on metal wear as much as possible. I know it sounds a little weird because it would only be a VERY short time without oil/ or oil pressure in there. But with the weather being cold I know the oil is a little thicker and I have been believing that what I am doing is a good thing.
I personally believe most “normal” engine wear comes from start up, especially a cold start up. In both senses of the term. One from being cold and the oil becoming harder to suck up. “like sucking up a milkshake though a straw compared to a soda” And the other way were there is no to damn near no oil to protect metal from scraping like the cylinder walls. And banging around like the top of the bearings in the connecting rods. Upon first starting the engine before the oil can absorb the blow like a pillow because of the constant pressure from the pump.
And I believe the rest of normal wear come from either the the engine not coming up the rpm range gradually like down shifting does and also oil not having enough viscosity from old overly used oil. Or it be from cylinder pressure being to high for the oil pressure at that point in time like an engine with a turbo pushing a considerable amount of boost at a low rpm.
quick story on the engine type in it
Its a 2.0L DOHC VVT that only takes 0W20 Oil.
The 2.0L was getting way to many complaints about being to underpowered for the weight of the car. And from the 2014 model year on is only in the base model. Its not even Used in any other cars. There was also a few options that they removed after the 13’s we have but I only wish we had one of the 2 colors that didn’t sell that good and where replaced after the 14’s.How has our car been treated?
I have babied this thing since we got it at 8 miles on the odometer before I even knew that the engine would get to be rare, The proof is when I can tell you that on average I get 31 city and 45 highway out of a car the epa estimated at 24 city 34 highway. But I have already seen and I kid you not…. over 53 mpg highway on a 3 1/2 hour trip to the beach and also on the way back from there. With 3 adults and a trunk full of luggage.It receives an oil change every 3,000 or 3 months what ever comes first. As I will be doing another one in a few hours. because its 3 months was up 2 days ago. And I will also replace the plugs even though it only has 13,989miles on it for other reasons I can get into later.
The entire car Has never had a problem except a crack windshield from a known faulty batch of them. Chrysler replaced that. Oh yeah and it had 1 recall because they wanted to make sure the bolt though the engine mount was tight enough, And it was.
What am I doing here?
What I will is if its been hours since it last ran I will floor it before ever inserting the key and let it crank 3-4 seconds, Then I will turn it off and then take my foot off the throttle petal, After that I Turn it back to run for 2-3 second and let the pump prime and then finally start it up.
I just wish right now i could use some sort of electric oil pump and pressure gauge. I might be able to Get the fitment and seal right. But with this vvt trying to find out what press at what rpm under load with out a dyno, And how to program a pump to raise press with rpm……That’s a little more difficult that i can find out on my own right now.But why would I do this?
I don’t plan on ever getting rid this car and I believe it would be easier to replace a starter every once in a wile than to do any sort of internal maintenance in this thing down the road. Don’t get me wrong I will do timing chains, seals, gaskets, the internal VVT cam seals, head gasket and such but. How ever since this engine is not as common as the other two are what would part cost and availability be. Probably A nightmare, that’s what. I plan on running this thing for A good number of years before touching any of the rings or bearings.Closing out
like I said up there I don’t plan on ever getting rid this car as it is our first and probably only new car. especially if its got a rare engine, rare bits and pieces and if you throw being a one owner in the mix I just think it would be pretty cool in 30+ years. And by that time all the memories in the darn thing. But like I said I just wish we had a rare color too.To tell you the truth if she hadn’t gone behind my back and bought it to surprise me we would be in some good old reliable P.O.S. lol. Oh well there will be always be a P.O.S. In our future for me. I miss my old 1999 Plymouth breeze. But I still got the engine block/head and 03 srt4 turbo….hmmm.
So Eric and others what are your views on this whole starting procedure im doing trying to minimized wear? I dont think that any damage could take place from the pins in the vvt locking and unlocking in place from the oil pressure rising and falling. What do All you people think?
And I hope this wasn’t to jumpy from thought to thought or too drawn out and long.
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I could see this being of some value if the car has been sitting for some time. On the other hand, I have probably backed half way down the driveway by the time everything is lubricated in my car. I don’t have the patience to mess with stuff like this on a daily basis.
Honestly this mostly seems like a pointless endeavour An engine used normally will last 20 years with minor repairs and maintenance
Doing an oil change every 3k is just a waste really and the cost of that over the years will set you back more than a new engine
(3 extra oil changes a year= ~$180 If done by yourself using good oil and filter)
A complete engine from a 2.0 dart range from $1600~$2100
It’s a new car most new cars on the road today aren’t babied there loan/fleet/rental or pcp cars I see 2012-2013 plate cars coming through the garage pushing 100k and everything is fine with them it’s age that kills cars more than mileage rubber dries seals crack parts get old and starts to stick etc etc
[quote=”Fmxvxx” post=125602]Honestly this mostly seems like a pointless endeavour An engine used normally will last 20 years with minor repairs and maintenance
Doing an oil change every 3k is just a waste really and the cost of that over the years will set you back more than a new engine
(3 extra oil changes a year= ~$180 If done by yourself using good oil and filter)
A complete engine from a 2.0 dart range from $1600~$2100
It’s a new car most new cars on the road today aren’t babied there loan/fleet/rental or pcp cars I see 2012-2013 plate cars coming through the garage pushing 100k and everything is fine with them it’s age that kills cars more than mileage rubber dries seals crack parts get old and starts to stick etc etc[/quote] Exactly. In the old days with a carb it was necessary to let the engine warm up and choke it to make it run richer for a proper start up. While it was being choked, oil dilution could occur from the fuel that was being dumped down the intake not being atomized properly. With modern EFI cars you just get in an go(I would wait 30 secs for the oil to be circulating properly because thats all it should take) but IMO you should still let the engine warm up to operating temp before romping on it. I do an engine oil change every 3k, but I am running a carb. Even with EFI though I wouldn’t go past 5k without an oil change. As an engine wears it is still good practice to increase oil change frequency as blowby increases with engine wear.
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=125608][quote=”Fmxvxx” post=125602]Honestly this mostly seems like a pointless endeavour An engine used normally will last 20 years with minor repairs and maintenance
Doing an oil change every 3k is just a waste really and the cost of that over the years will set you back more than a new engine
(3 extra oil changes a year= ~$180 If done by yourself using good oil and filter)
A complete engine from a 2.0 dart range from $1600~$2100
It’s a new car most new cars on the road today aren’t babied there loan/fleet/rental or pcp cars I see 2012-2013 plate cars coming through the garage pushing 100k and everything is fine with them it’s age that kills cars more than mileage rubber dries seals crack parts get old and starts to stick etc etc[/quote] Exactly. In the old days with a carb it was necessary to let the engine warm up and choke it to make it run richer for a proper start up. While it was being choked, oil dilution could occur from the fuel that was being dumped down the intake not being atomized properly. With modern EFI cars you just get in an go(I would wait 30 secs for the oil to be circulating properly because thats all it should take) but IMO you should still let the engine warm up to operating temp before romping on it. I do an engine oil change every 3k, but I am running a carb. Even with EFI though I wouldn’t go past 5k without an oil change. As an engine wears it is still good practice to increase oil change frequency as blowby increases with engine wear.[/quote]
How come you guys change the oil so much? here it’s 12 months/20k miles some manufacturers go as low as 12 but people generally ignore the mileage and do it once per year, unheard of to have the oil changed out at 3k/5k etc unless it’s been 12 months since the last change.
[quote=”Fmxvxx” post=125609][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=125608][quote=”Fmxvxx” post=125602]Honestly this mostly seems like a pointless endeavour An engine used normally will last 20 years with minor repairs and maintenance
Doing an oil change every 3k is just a waste really and the cost of that over the years will set you back more than a new engine
(3 extra oil changes a year= ~$180 If done by yourself using good oil and filter)
A complete engine from a 2.0 dart range from $1600~$2100
It’s a new car most new cars on the road today aren’t babied there loan/fleet/rental or pcp cars I see 2012-2013 plate cars coming through the garage pushing 100k and everything is fine with them it’s age that kills cars more than mileage rubber dries seals crack parts get old and starts to stick etc etc[/quote] Exactly. In the old days with a carb it was necessary to let the engine warm up and choke it to make it run richer for a proper start up. While it was being choked, oil dilution could occur from the fuel that was being dumped down the intake not being atomized properly. With modern EFI cars you just get in an go(I would wait 30 secs for the oil to be circulating properly because thats all it should take) but IMO you should still let the engine warm up to operating temp before romping on it. I do an engine oil change every 3k, but I am running a carb. Even with EFI though I wouldn’t go past 5k without an oil change. As an engine wears it is still good practice to increase oil change frequency as blowby increases with engine wear.[/quote]
How come you guys change the oil so much? here it’s 12 months/20k miles some manufacturers go as low as 12 but people generally ignore the mileage and do it once per year, unheard of to have the oil changed out at 3k/5k etc unless it’s been 12 months since the last change.[/quote] 20k miles? No way….I can’t believe y’all wait so long! Europe I assume?
20k are flexible services which is mostly lease/rental companies since they make up such a large amount of business and there cheap as hell it keeps them happy and brings us the work
fixed intervals are 10k services but most people tend to ignore that and do it once per year regardless of mileage.
[quote=”Fmxvxx” post=125619]20k are flexible services which is mostly lease/rental companies since they make up such a large amount of business and there cheap as hell it keeps them happy and brings us the work
fixed intervals are 10k services but most people tend to ignore that and do it once per year regardless of mileage.[/quote] I see, well I can’t speak for everyone in the USA but the reason I do it the way I do it is because I run an older engine with a carb and a distributor. Older engines require more frequent intervals in general not just oil. I run copper plugs in my engine and change them about every 15k(copper plugs are much cheaper than platinum so this is no hurt in my wallet), I change my oil every 3k miles, grease my fittings every 5k miles, PCV valve check every 5k miles, timing check every 5k, idle mixture check every 2.5k as well as choke check.. etc. Preventative maintenance is the best maintenance.
As a DIY’er I can replace any part on my car. It is just a question of buying a replacement and getting out the tools. But when the engine goes, either rings or bearings, as far as I am concerned, engines are not worth rebuilding or replacing, it is time for a new vehicle. Since I am just as happy driving an old vehicle as a new one so long as the engine is good and I don’t like spending money I prefer to get as much mileage out of the old vehicle as possible.
First there was an oil company that claimed you could drive tons of miles without changing oil. They did this to sell their more expensive oil. Then EPA became concerned about all the waste oil being dumped onto the ground. Finally, car makers figured out that car owners don’t like doing maintenance. All this conspired to cause oil change intervals to become longer and longer.
Well, I use synthetic oil, change it every 3000 miles and I think I am money ahead doing it.
I too blame exaggerated claims of oil life on the EPA, engine oil manufacturers, and the auto manufacturers.
Interesting story:
There was one day that I went to get something to eat at a KFC. When I came out I opened my hood in the parking lot and checked my oil. As I was doing this, a teenager walked out to his car and asked what I was doing with a “piece of the engine in my hand”(refering to the dipstick) I was in shock and awe and responded “checking the oil”. The kid was dumbfounded. Is this seriously what we have for a future generation?[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=125715] Is this seriously what we have for a future generation?[/quote]
Yes, Yes it is and I can not wait for that day because there will be even less mechanics. This means more pay and a solid work load.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=125718][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=125715] Is this seriously what we have for a future generation?[/quote]
Yes, Yes it is and I can not wait for that day because there will be even less mechanics. This means more pay and a solid work load.[/quote] While this is true, I worry for the hobby side of things. Sure, I may get more work but I enjoy seeing the younger generations interested in cars. When a boy works with his dad on a 55 chevy or the like…that just gives me hope. I don’t want to see the younger generations lose interest because that will hurt us all one way or another.
Psh that is what we are for raise our kids and teach them and then they make even more bank then us if they decide to go that route. There will always be people that want to know how things tick or to mod stuff. It is just as the complexity increases the number of people that can do it decreases.
I have no problem teaching people that are willing, want to learn, and know how to not stick their finger in moving parts (aka common sense) but, either way it is going to become a lost art like blacksmithing.
Btw, are you ever tempted to stick your finger into or on moving parts. I always have been but, won’t because I am aware of the result but for some reason I just want to.
To get back to the issue at hand you can use clear flood mode though I wouldn’t you could also hookup an electric pump to move oil when the key is in koeo position just like your fuel pump does. Though doing this would be somewhat fun as you would need to tap into the port for your oil pump output and the clean side of your oil filter or screen depending on pump tolerances. Then it would have to have enough power to push the oil through at the right psi and in a hurry. That means extra battery load which means a deep cycle battery or a much higher cca battery. Especially for short trips. Depending on the location of your oil pump this could be nearly impossible. Then you would need a relay that when the engine is cranked tripped off the electric pump until the next key cycle. Which can be done but, requires some electrical know how.
If you ask me it is more trouble then it is worth. While I agree that as long as everything else is in perfect working order the main wear on all oiled bushing or oil pressure fluid bearings (Can’t think of the proper name atm) does occur during starting. The fact of the matter is if you use a good oil and use something like slick50 or lucas it will help prevent this.
Most people go well the silicone in slick 50 just melts at engine operating temperature this is true. The silicone then when the engine cools sticks to everything. This provides an initial friction barrier to help mitigate friction before oil flow. That is at least the science behind that one. Issue is on an older engine it can clog passages.
For lucas it increases its cling to everything. This means too much lucas too much ling not enough oil to go around and too much resistance to flow. Though during start up this gives it a cushion to ride on till oil gets to it. Though I have heard the lucas will break down over time and become less effective dunno how long that takes or what it will cause when it does.
The idea is all they same their are other products out there that do the same thing but,in different ways. Either of which would cause a void of warranty as well as the installation of the proposed pump.
[quote=”MDK22″ post=125740]Psh that is what we are for raise our kids and teach them and then they make even more bank then us if they decide to go that route. There will always be people that want to know how things tick or to mod stuff. It is just as the complexity increases the number of people that can do it decreases.
I have no problem teaching people that are willing, want to learn, and know how to not stick their finger in moving parts (aka common sense) but, either way it is going to become a lost art like blacksmithing.
Btw, are you ever tempted to stick your finger into or on moving parts. I always have been but, won’t because I am aware of the result but for some reason I just want to.
[/quote]
1. True
2. Same here and true
3. Nah, never really been tempted to. I like my fingers too much to fall for the allure of a spinning fan or belt driven pulleys.
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