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In bosch’s youtube installation video dated Aug 8, 2012 it showed animation of air flow along electrical wires with the instruction: “It is critical to understand that in order for the oxygen sensor to work properly air must be drawn into the sensor through the connecting wires. Therefore you must not solder the wires together. Doing so will result in a malfunctioning sensor.” Is Bosch correct? Can air travel inside electrical wire or outside electrical wire? There are quite a few feet of wires, it is hard to believe that the air can travel that far. Also there are plenty of air can go into the sensor, why does it have to be inside the wire?
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at 6:46 minutes, I did blow air into the wire connector, it felt sealed.
The engine light with P0141 came back three times. I have just ordered the honda genuine oxygen sensor however now the engine light no longer turns on anymore.
[quote=”corgllc” post=81531] I have just ordered the honda genuine oxygen sensor however now the engine light no longer turns on anymore.[/quote]
I try and stay to OEM for electrical parts, especially computer sensors.
I meant to say that I just ordered the honda’s sensor, before I received it, before I installed the new sensor the engine light no longer turns on. I am not sure if it is the sensor’s problem anymore.
The old sensor still measures 6 ohm. However after resetting, the engine light with p0141 came back a few days later, this repeated 3 times. I think I am going to install the new sensor anyway even the old sensor is a good one. This will eliminate one variable.
[quote=”corgllc” post=82070][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
do you have an link of the patent?[/quote]
thanks.
how is the “clearances ” defined?=========================================================
To prevent water invasion from any clearance formed between the insulating jacket 24 and the guide bush 20, the entire outer surface of the guide bush 20 is mechanically caulked in the direction of arrow marks A, whereby a housing compartment 25 formed at the side of the reference gas contact compartment of the housing 1 is hermetically sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere around the housing 1. The housing compartment 25 communicates with the atmosphere at the desired location in the vehicle through clearances in the electrical conductor 23 of core-wires, and the air as the reference gas can be introduced through the clearances into the housing compartment 25. The air as the reference gas spontaneously flows in or out of the housing compartment 25, through the clearances by aspirating action of the housing 1 due to a temperature change, and expansion and contraction of air in the reference gas contact compartment, caused by temperature changes in the exhaust gas pipe, or further by diffusing action of the air.
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According to the present embodiment as described above, the housing compartment 25 at the reference gas contact side is sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere, and the air as the reference gas is introduced into the housing compartment 25 through the clearances of the electrical conductor 23 of core-wires. That is, water droplets such as those of rain water, etc. are not splashed onto the solid electrolyte partition wall 7 at an elevated temperature, and therefore cracks, etc. due to quenching are never developed.
============================================[quote=”imagine44″ post=82071][quote=”corgllc” post=82070][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
do you have an link of the patent?[/quote]
[quote=”corgllc” post=82072]thanks.
how is the “clearances ” defined?
[/quote]The way I read it, “clearance(s)” would be defined as a gap sufficient to allow water penetration or sufficient to allow a gas to flow.
To prevent water invasion from any clearance formed between the insulating jacket 24 and the guide bush 20, the entire outer surface of the guide bush 20 is mechanically caulked in the direction of arrow marks A, whereby a housing compartment 25 formed at the side of the reference gas contact compartment of the housing 1 is hermetically sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere around the housing 1. The housing compartment 25 communicates with the atmosphere at the desired location in the vehicle through clearances in the electrical conductor 23 of core-wires, and the air as the reference gas can be introduced through the clearances into the housing compartment 25. The air as the reference gas spontaneously flows in or out of the housing compartment 25, through the clearances by aspirating action of the housing 1 due to a temperature change, and expansion and contraction of air in the reference gas contact compartment,
[quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
Well, I stand corrected regarding the patent examiner. However, they offer several methods for diffusion of air to the reference sensor, especially in the second to last paragraph:
1. Gaps produced by thermal expansion of the housing.
2. Gap in the signal wire, although they mention the introduction a gap or tube between the stranded wire and insulation.
3. Gap in the outer tubing, referenced as “braided armor”, that is sealed/caulked at the sensor housing.
4. Tube or empty wire to carry air to the reference sensor.The patent is exactly about what Bosch seems to claims. Reference air is supplied to the oxygen sensor through an extended passage where the end likely isn’t subject to water infiltration. In this case the extended passage is a stranded wire.
The 2nd to last paragraph says this regarding the extended passage.
In brief, any passage can be used, so long as the passage can introduce the air as the reference gas from the desired location having no fear of water splashing in a vehicle to the housing compartment 25 sealed off from the surrounding atmosphere. However, in that case, the introduction of the reference gas through an extended passage in the form of an electrical conductor of core-wires as 23 is more advantageous in reduction of the number of the necessary parts than that in the form of an independent tube, and an extended passage in the form of only stranded wires of stainless steel or copper is much more advantageous in improving the resistance to vibration.
[quote=”Hanneman” post=82074][quote=”imagine44″ post=82069]Not absolutely sure (haven’t taken one apart) if this patent applies to this Bosch oxygen sensor, but it should at minimum show the principle of what’s being talked about.
Well, I stand corrected regarding the patent examiner. However, they offer several methods for diffusion of air to the reference sensor, especially in the second to last paragraph:
1. Gaps produced by thermal expansion of the housing.
2. Gap in the signal wire, although they mention the introduction a gap or tube between the stranded wire and insulation.
3. Gap in the outer tubing, referenced as “braided armor”, that is sealed/caulked at the sensor housing.
4. Tube or empty wire to carry air to the reference sensor.[/quote][quote=”imagine44″ post=82075]The patent is exactly about what Bosch seems to claims. Reference air is supplied to the oxygen sensor through an extended passage where the end likely isn’t subject to water infiltration. In this case the extended passage is a stranded wire.
The 2nd to last paragraph says this regarding the extended passage.[/quote]
Yes, the claim about air diffusing through wire was accepted by the patent examiner. However, it probably would not pass scietific scruntiny – unless there was experimental evidence to supporting the claim. The diffusion coefficient of oxygen is 8000 times less in water than free space. The value should be lower for a wire with a small void volume where air can only enter/exit the wire from the ends. For all practical purposes, I would expect the diffusion rate through a standard piece of wire would be very, very slow – effectively nill. Now, if the volume is increased by using insulation with a larger inner diameter, then diffusion will be faster and my previous argument is nullified. And, I don’t know how the examiner and lawyers negotiated the claims at the end of the day.
That second paragraph also contains multiple approaches for allowing air to pass through the wire harness. Patent law allows for multiple methods/items to be “enabled” even though only one or few example(s) (i.e. embodyment) has/have be demonstrated. Supposedly, this is allowed to prevent “undue experimentation”, but it raises a potential issues with validity, patent enforcement, and true ownership of intellectual property.
I’m really not trying to split hairs, or revive a dead horse only to beat it to death again.
I have a Bosch universal down stream and a NTK universal upstream. Bosch say not to solder and the sensor has no holes in the body like the NTK and the original Denso.
The Bosch wires seem to be made of stainless steel or something and would be hard to solder anyway.
The conector box also has stainless conector pins and rubber sealing caps like on the original Honda plugs under the car.
The NTK came with a copper wire connected to the original but the Honda wires on the original are not copper and soldering could be a problem.
I fitted the universal as they are a lot cheaper than Honda. But had to bin one as the heater resistance was too low.
So far so good and with an older car the original ones lasted for 14 years so hopefully it will keep it running.
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