Brake Caliper question

[Chris Salvato]

I replaced a front brake caliper on my 2003 Saturn Vue about two weeks ago. All went well (so I thought).

However, on driving home from work tonight, I smelled a foul odor coming from the front wheel. I took everything apart and discovered a problem with the new caliper I had just installed.

Turns out that the caliper cylinder boots did not properly retract into the caliper, and appear to have melted in place against the brake pad (also brand new). Obviously, that’s the source of the smell.

I’m pretty sure the caliper needs to be replaced, but I’m not sure if this is would be covered by warranty. I assume it’s possible I screwed something up on installation, but the cylinders were fully seated when I installed it, the boots were in great shape, etc.

Was there some step I should have taken to ensure that the boots slid back into place properly that might nullify my warranty?

Or do I potentially have a warranty claim on the part here?

Topic

[Ingvar]

Why would you replace a perfectly fine caliper?
Those are simply dust boots and I had several working fine with them practically gone.
DO NOT replace that caliper, unless you have extra $$ to waste or store has Wallmart type return policy.
Simply take caliper apart and clean the burnt rubber. It is very easy done with a little bit of compressed air. Betcha Eric has video here “how to”. Overhaul kits are readily available for any caliper.

[Chris Salvato]

Unfortunately, I don’t have compressed air to work with, although the cost of a cheap pancake compressor is comparable to the cost of a new caliper, so this may be my excuse to get one.

But, the main question is whether this is considered a normal wear-and-tear situation for a two-week-old caliper. It seems a bit fast for the dust boots to get out of whack, and I’m not sure if I screwed something up on the install that would nullify any warranty, or if this is a sign of a defective part. I’d rather not put the work in to do the boot replacement if the part is at fault.

Thanks for your response!

[EricTheCarGuy]

The caliper may not have been at fault. It could also be a bad break hose. Pump the brake pedal several times and crack the bleeder valve on the caliper loose. If it has some pressure behind it, it could indicate a bad brake hose which can also cause those problems. If the fluid just trickles out, it’s likely to be a caliper problem. More info here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems

Good luck and keep us posted

[Chris Salvato]

In investigating replacement hoses in case that turns out to be the culprit, I’ve become confused.

RockAuto offers me brake hoses with “double inverted flare cylinder ports & hose threads” and “bubble flare cylinder ports & hose threads.”

What’s the difference between these two and is it important to get the right type for my vehicle?

If it is, how do I tell which I need?

If it’s not important, is one better than the other?

Thanks for all your help!

[Chris Salvato]

I have yet to test the brake lines, but regardless, the dust boots on that brand new caliper need to be replaced. Is there any way to do that without removing the caliper piston?

I’m wary of disassembling what is effectively a brand-new refurbished caliper for fear of screwing something up, but the smell of those melting dust boots is just awful.

Is it safe to cut/pull them out of the caliper in the short term until I can rebuild/replace the caliper?

[Ingvar]

You can’t screw up a caliper, as it is a very simple device.
I used to pull dust boots out with a flat head screw driver, and piston half way out. They simply sit in a grove made for them. You can almost pull it out with fingers.
There’s ton of caliper overhaul videos online.
As it does not require a lot of pressure to push piston out, you can use hand pump to press it out. Or, simply, remove caliper off bracket, remove brake pads, and use brake pedal to press it out. A helper comes very handy for this. As far as you have piston mostly out, you should be able to remove the dust boot.

Eric, he clearly indicated boot issue:

Turns out that the caliper cylinder boots did not properly retract into the caliper, and appear to have melted in place against the brake pad (also brand new). Obviously, that’s the source of the smell.

[EricTheCarGuy]

Rebuilding calipers can be a challenge. I don’t believe you can replace the dust boot without removing the piston first.

[Bob]

Inverted flare vs. bubble flare question…

These are two different types of flares, done with different flaring tools, and are not interchangeable. As an “old guy” I grew up familiar with double flares in brake lines. This is a cone shaped flare on the end of the line, with the outer edge folded back to form a lip. It looks like a “single flare” used in plumbing but is not. The fitting seals on the folded back cone shape lip.

A bubble flare (I think also known as an ISO flare) is a bubble formed back from the tip of the tube. It is made with a different tool. The fitting seals on the front edge and back edge of the bubble.

I don’t know how to tell which one you have unless you remove it. You are taking the chance of the master cyl draining down, so keep an eye on the fluid level. You don’t want to make bleeding any harder than you have to.

[Chris Salvato]

Normally I would’t attempt the rebuild, but this caliper is literally less than a month old. The only thing wrong with it is the dust boots (assuming it’s the brake lines causing the trouble).

I’m going to attempt the rebuild and if it fails, well, the refurbishment company will get the cleanest core return they’ve ever seen!

Thanks!

[Chris Salvato]

Thanks for the info – I’ve done a bit of research and ordered what I think are the correct hoses, based on VIN. Any suggestions on how to seal off the brake line when I do the swap?

[Chris Salvato]

I finally managed to get the car up and do some investigation today, and I’ve got some results that I think are pretty definitive.

First, a little background: I’ve noticed recently a substantial delay in the car actually starting to move under idle when letting off the brake from a full stop. This is after having replaced a caliper on the front driver’s side due to a badly leaking piston dust boot on the factory-original caliper that was discovered while changing brake pads and rotors.

There has also been a burning smell coming from the driver’s side brakes, and at one point I noticed tiny wisps of smoke emitting from around the pads after some highway driving. An infrared thermometer read the driver’s side rotor as twice as hot as the passenger side. Investigating, I found what I thought were melted dust boots on the brand new caliper and a ton of sooty residue all over the assembly. That’s when I came to this forum.

Following Eric’s advice, I checked for hose malfunction by pumping the brakes 5-6 times then cracking the bleeder valve. A small squirt of brake fluid fired out roughly 1″ from the fitting opening. I closed the valve and tried again, and this time a substantial dribble came out. Unsure if this was normal or abnormal, I decided to try the other, non-suspect caliper.

When I cracked THAT caliper’s bleeder valve, nothing came out – not a drop. After trying 3 times, I unscrewed the bleeder valve completely to make sure there was brake fluid in there, and sure enough there was. So now I think Eric’s instincts were right, and my caliper is fine, but my hose needs replacement.

I also took a good look at the boots with better light and I now don’t think the they’ve melted at all. They must be a different style that have a small lip that sits above the caliper body; I was confused because my factory calipers have boots that fully retract flush with the piston. I imagine the smell is probably my brand-new (admittedly cheap) brake pads overheating against the rotor due to the non-retracting pistons.

So, unless anybody sees some major flaw in my reasoning, I think my next step is replacing the brake line on the driver’s side.

Thanks for all your help, and I’ll let you know how it goes!

[Chris Salvato]

I finally managed to carve out some time to get the hose replaced, and after a blissfully straightforward replacement, the caliper seems to be operating properly now. I have yet to give it a good workout yet, and I suspect I may have warped the rotor in the meantime, but for now, at least the primary problem has been fixed.

I also did a “poor man’s” brake fluid change with the turkey baster and boy am I glad I did – I must have been way overdue for new fluid based on the color of the stuff I took out of the master cylinder.

Thanks for the help Eric and everybody else!

[Author]

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