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My car is a 96 accord LX 2.2 with 145k miles. A month ago I noticed the car started to idle rough. When I checked the coolant it was a bit low so I filled it up. The coolant was not extremely low, but I decided to do the cooling system bleeding procedure just to rule air in the cooling system out. The problem was still there. I rented a cooling system pressure test kit and I pressurized the system. I noticed a bulging top radiator hose so I replaced that and tested it again. The cooling system held pressure over a 5 minute period only dropping 1 PSI. I noticed the bottom rad hose was also damp around the connections but I did not get a chance to change that one. After the pressure testing, the car was very hard to start and took about 5 tries to get it going. After that I assumed I had a leak in the head gasket but I wanted to make sure. I rented a block test kit from AutoZone and bought some of their test liquid. I did the block test and over a 4 minute period of testing from stone cold the liquid became VERY faint blue, but not green or yellow like the instructions said tit would for a blown head gasket. I am leaning toward the idea that I do have a blown gasket but I don’t want to replace it if I don’t need to. I have no other signs of a blown head gasket. No coffee color in the oil or on the oil cap, no wetness on the spark plugs, coolant is not oily of milky. I do have some condensation type smoke/vapor coming out of the tailpipe when for the first 5 minutes of cold starting. The car runs very well except for the idling problem and the car does not overheat. Also the coolant does drop slightly every few days, but I am not sure if the lower rad hose or other cooling hoses are the cause. Is there anything else I could do to verify if this is the problem or does the evidence I have gathered so far give a clear picture of the problem? Thanks.
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My first guess would be the lower radiator hose is going to bust soon, since you said it had traces of coolant around it. Or something is leaking.
Head gasket – Yeah it is easy to speculate the worst when something goes wrong. I would imagine if it did have a bad head gasket, it would not run well during the last month.
Just how much coolant is it losing every few days?
About every 10 days I am losing a filled overflow container worth of fluid. When the engine is at a cold start the the coolant does not bubble. After the engine warms up it will start to boil. The biggest thing that worried me was when I pressure tested the cooling system it made the car hard to start. This makes me think that without compression in the cylinders the coolant was able to seep in.
I agree from what you’ve said especially with regards to it being hard to start after pressure testing that it is the head gasget.
I would fix the ‘possible’ leaking hose just to be sure that you’re not losing all of your coolant there before saying for sure that it’s the HG.
I’m not going to suggest that you keep hiring kit, but in hindsight it would be interesting to do a second pressure test, but next time leave it on for longer and check for water in the cylinders before attempting to start the engine.
If there is water in a/some cylinders, turn the car over without the spark plugs in before starting it again. This will push the water out through the holes as appose to bending and breaking the internal workings.
Kdr
If after the engine warms up coolant in the overflow container starts to boil and about every 10 days you are losing a filled overflow container worth of fluid, then your head gasket is pretty surely blown. Hose possibly started to leak because of increased pressure in the cooling system because of exhaust gasses getting into it.
You are wondering where the coolant is disappearing to but you know the lower hose is leaking. I’d suggest fixing the lower hose. Most head gasket leaks don’t affect idle.
I just read the question “With the engine running have you checked for bubbles in the coolant reservoir?” again and I realized I read it incorrectly the first time. I have never paid attention to what the reservoir was doing but I will check that when I get a chance. I was referring to what the coolant was doing inside an open radiator. I am guessing I would do this by leaving the rad cap on or else I doubt coolant would be pushed into the reservoir. I know that the coolant reservoir on this car is not pressurized, but would a poor fitting cap (threads on reservoir cap stripped) cause a big drop in coolant? Thanks for all the responses I really appreciate it.
If the coolant in the radiator gets pushed into the reservoir, it looks like the coolant in the reservoir is boiling, the reservoir is full, coolant is being dumped onto the ground and the temperature gauge reads hot then I’d say you definitely have a blown head gasket.
Your block test didn’t give a positive reading. So all you have is disappearing coolant and you know the lower hose is leaking. A new radiator cap is a good idea as well as checking that all the hoses going to the reservoir are a tight fit. Check the radiator for leaks. Leaks that occur there may dry due to heat and never make it to the ground. All you will see is the stain of dried antifreeze.
So, fix the lower radiator hose. Other than that I would recommend doing nothing for now. Keep an eye on the cooling system. Report back to us if anything else occurs.
Might have counter-argue “do nothing for now”.
Find out for sure the exact problem real soon. Why?
If it’s a failing head gasket, it might be fine for a while. However…
If that IS the case, Murphy’s law dictates that it will fail catastrophically towards the middle of January on a Sunday evening when we are facing record-breaking cold temperatures.
Why?
Because things like this just do not happen when you are working in the garage with a cold beer and waiting for the brats and burgers to finish cooking on the grill.Any access to atmosphere will cause coolant to be lost due to evaporation so poor threads on the reservoir cap won’t help.
There is more t the cap than meets the eye, in the UK we call it a PVRV (Pressure Valve Release Valve) it allows the coolant to reach 100c plus without boiling due to increased pressure, it releases pressure when it gets too high and allows air back in when the coolant cools again. So if you think it’s faulty, replace it.
Sometimes if your head gasget is blown on the compression stroke of the otto cycle air wil be blown past the faulty gasget in to the coolant, the pump will push the air around the system and it will make its way back to the coolant reservoir. When you start the engine while cold take the PVRV off and watch the coolant for a while, if it’s less than 100c and you can see bubbles… It’s not boiling it’s getting rid of compression air.
I strongly suspect from your pressure test that you will see this because you found it hard to start after doing this test.
Imagin this: let’s say you have a gasget blown from coolant to cylinder 2 & 3 one would be on compression one would be on exhause going into induction. You do your pressure test and fill the remaining sace inthe cylinder with coolant. You now have wet cylinders with a very small amount of water in. Your pressure test looses 1psi over 5 mins, which corrosponds with a small fluid loss. You then turn the engine over. Cylinder 1 and 4 fire but 2 & 3 are wet and therefore the engine won’t start, you continue to turn the engine over 2 & 3 dry out and the engine fires on all four cylinders. That’s what I think happened.
Now consider this. You have the same gasget fault on 2 & 3 but this time 2 is at the end of the power stroke going into exhause and 3 is at the end of induction going into compression. Your test shows a psi drop of 15 psi over 5 mins, you’ve filled both cylinders with water. You turn the key and cylinder 3 goes into a hydrostatic lock (water in the cylinder that won’t compress and therefore locks the engine). You take out the spark plug and tuen the engine over again, you see a jet of water fly out of the hole.
Just saying what could have happened, I know you’ve identified several other faults but I strongly lean towards the gasget. This is why I’m saying another pressure test will almost certainly confirm this, especially if you turn the engine over by hand while doing the test and leave the pressure on for longer.
However seeing bubbles in the coolant will also confirm the gasget is blown. It’s a big job, to be sure I’d do both if you don’t see the bubbles.
I wanted to say thanks again for all the replies I have gotten on this thread. I have been a longtime lurker, but this was my first post and this forum has been more than helpful. I know next to nothing about cars and car repairs but I am so poor it has become a necessity to start learning. Because I felt like the first block test was inconclusive I decided to buy some test liquid from another parts store (Napa). I used this liquid on a warm engine and after 2-3 minutes the liquid became light green almost yellow. I do believe I have a blown head gasket, or at least(most) some defect related to the engine block. I wanted to let everyone know that not all test solutions are the same because I used the OEM brand from Autozone (8oz for $8.99) and the solution only turned very light blue not yellow or green with the exact same testing procedure. The Napa product was 5.50 for 16 oz and starts out as a much darker blue making it easier to distinguish a color difference. I have been looking for a good head gasket replacement write up or video but I cannot seem to find one. If anyone could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.
Another question I have is at this point would a leak down test be helpful in determining whether I even want to repair the head gasket, or junk the car? Since there is a proven passage between cylinders and cooling system, would I just be losing all compression from that cylinder to the cooling system, or would I still be able to gain any information? I really can’t afford another car but I don’t want to dump $ into this head gasket repair if I won’t end up with a reliable engine. I have heard many times that you should not replace a head gasket without finding the root cause of the problem. I am trying to think of a reason for which the head gasket would have blown and I cannot. 2 years ago the car overheated because I neglected the coolant in the summer, but in the last 2 years I have not lost any coolant until recently. Since the overheat the temp gauge has not passed 1/4 mark. If I decide to keep the car I will definitely replace the lower radiator hose, but where else could I look for clues about why this condition occurred?
Why did it happen? Probably just the overheating thing, even if two years ago, was likely enough to weaken the gasket. It just gets worse over time. Keep in mind the head gasket has a tough job to do.
Sometimes bad head gaskets take a long time to fail badly and sometimes it is pretty much overnight.If you change it out, that car will probably never have another problem with the head gasket, provided it doesn’t overheat again due to negligence.
With getting things from autozone – yeah it is less expensive but their stuff isn’t always the best. Not surprised to hear the head gasket testing whatever didn’t work well.
I agree, everything you describe sounds like the classic symptoms of a combustion leak into the cooling system. When combustion gasses get into the cooling system one of the first things it does is wreck the rubber hoses. The upper radiator hose is usually first. This condition can often damage all the hoses and as a result I would suggest you check the heater hoses under the distributor as well. I think you’ll find those are also swollen.
That said, a head gasket failure on that engine is not common. Engines with steel gaskets like yours don’t often have issues. What often happens is that there is slight warpage to the cylinder head that causes the leakage. It’s not the end of the world. I often just replace the head gasket and torque everything down to spec and that usually does the trick. I read about this years ago as opposed to having the cylinder head machined. Re-torquing the head seems to correct the issue in most cases and does not remove material from the cylinder head to do it. I will also say that if you decide to tackle this job not to use any abrasives on the head or block. The mating surfaces should be a mirror finish. Any scratches you put in the aluminum could be a potential leak. Follow this rule with any steel head gasket. Lastly don’t forget to bleed the air out of the system when you’re done to avoid future issues with the cooling system.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I was pricing out some head gasket options on Ebay and I have a few questions. Is stamped steel (what I believe came OEM) the same thing as multi layered steel? Does anyone know if an option like this http://goo.gl/MXn7ui would work, or do I need to pay more for a name brand from a local parts store? Thanks.
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