Better to buy used luxury?

[Damanpreet]

Hey guys,

I’m new to this forum. I hope I’ve posted in the appropriate section, but if not, please excuse me. I’ve been watching Eric’s youtube videos for a few years now and have learned a lot.

I’m writing to ask for some advice on which I car I should go for.

I currenlty drive a 1996 Lexus ES300 with around 176,000 miles. Drove like a charm until a few thousand miles ago. It’s starting to get sluggish and I usually lock the cruise control so I can keep it at 65 when cruising on the highway. I do the regular maintanence (oil changes, brakes, etc) and got new A/S Michelin’s sometime during the winter. But, just recently, it’s starting to give me trouble. The valve gasket is leaking, I just replaced the battery, some of the dashboard lights, and right headlight this weekend. So it’s getting to that point where I feel I need to stop investing in it.

Now, I’m considering an ’04 Lexus ES300, an ’07 Lexus ES300, ’10 Lexus ES350 or a 2011 Toyota Camry. My family and I have always been loyal to Toyota/Lexus. They’re the only brand we’ve over owned. My old car was a ’97 Camry that died at 186k miles when the transmission failed.

Which should I go for? An old Lexus or newer camry? I prefer the old Lexus’s because I know that they are made with more metal parts and will probably last longer and require less maintainence. From my experience with my ’96 Lexus, maintanence has been a breeze. Up until recently, I haven’t needed much aside from basic maintanence.

Would be grateful for any advice.

Thanks!

Topic

[James O’Hara]

I would go for the Toyota Camry for a couple simple reasons. One being there is a hell of a lot of them out there so parts down the road will be easier to find and get. Another reason is if you are in a not so nice area you stand out less. It will be cheaper for insurance. I believe them to be a simpler car to work on but, compared to older year Lexus’ it may be a wash. Another thing is Lexus as far as I am aware have electrical issues more often then most cars though you may know better then me. Where the Toyota’s are more known for bulletproof design. I also think that it may be cheaper overall to maintain for tires, fluids, etc. It may not look or carry the status of a Lexus but, I think a Camry may be better. Hopefully we can get people that work on each to way in more though.

[Damanpreet]

Thanks for the quick reply!

I’ve been considering your point about the maintanence for a Camry being less because there are more Camrys out on the road and therefore are a lot of aftermarket parts for them. However, aren’t there also a ton of Lexus ES330 and Lexus ES350s on the road? Also, my understanding is that Toyota parts can be used on Lexus vehicles, substantially reducing the maintanence cost. This may not be the case anymore because the newer Lexus ES models are based on the Toyota Avalon design, not the Camry design.

[zero]

You’re basically comparing Apple’s with slightly different Apples. The ES is a gussied up Camry and they’re both Toyota’s. So unless you try to kill it by not servicing whatever you choose you shouldn’t have a problem hitting 200k miles. The only big difference would really be how many bells and whistles there are and how pretty the trim is. Some of the Lexus specific stuff might cost you more, but I think a lot of the car is carry over.

I think just by moving into a 2011 from a 1996 will blow your mind.

In conclusion, if your think you would actually benefit from the add-ons of an ES vs a Camry, then go for it. If you can get a Camry equipped the way you want for less then there’s no reason not to get a Camry over an ES.

[Jesse]

[quote=”Hackiesacker007″ post=136391]Thanks for the quick reply!

I’ve been considering your point about the maintanence for a Camry being less because there are more Camrys out on the road and therefore are a lot of aftermarket parts for them. However, aren’t there also a ton of Lexus ES330 and Lexus ES350s on the road? Also, my understanding is that Toyota parts can be used on Lexus vehicles, substantially reducing the maintanence cost. This may not be the case anymore because the newer Lexus ES models are based on the Toyota Avalon design, not the Camry design.[/quote]
The ES’s are all based on Toyota’s K-Platform which contains the Solera, Camry, Avalon and many other vehicles. The ES’s seem to have a softer suspension when compared to their Camry brethren. They are a smoother ride, and whenever I drive them it does a very good job of absorbing the bumps, and potholes in the road. The suspension on this car is dialed in, and compliant.

Mechanically, the ES series is similar to the other K-Platform Toyota’s, that being said there are still some differences. Whenever an ES comes into my Toyota dealership for a repair sometimes the parts department is left scratching their head. Not all of the parts are in the ES are the same as its K-platform counterparts. The parts that have the Lexus insignia stamped on them come at much larger cost, and let me tell you there are PLENTY of them in the ES’s that won’t fit a Camry or vise versa.

That being said Lexus’s are still very easy, and inexpensive compared to most luxury cars to maintain, but they definitely cost more to maintain than the Camry. The parts are more expensive, and the Lexus dealerships in my area charge a little more to per hour than the Toyota dealerships do. You can always take it to Toyota, but sometimes they won’t have the parts and it will take a little longer for them to complete the repair, or if they are like the dealership I work at they’ll tack on a little extra charge.

The ES’s I noticed seem to have more electrical issues, but they are mostly related to the extra features that are in them.

If you want a reliable, affordable luxury car the ES’s are a very good option. The Camry’s are a better option if you want the cheapest, easiest, hassle free way to go to from point A to point B. The Camry’s are not as plushy, don’t come with as many features, and are not as smooth of a ride. The Carmy’s do however offer similar driving dynamics, and characteristics. You will also get a newer car with less miles in a Camry than with an ES. I do not think the Lexus is worth the extra money. It’s also worth noting that you should probably stay away from the IS250/350 if one should catch your eye if you’re looking for an ES series.

[Damanpreet]

Thanks for the replies!

Any particular reason why I should exclude the ES350s from my search? Are the maintanence costs substantially higher?

Also, I’ve heard that many of the newer Toyota Camrys aren’t as reliable as they older ones – should I consider something like a Nissan Altima or Honda Civic?

Ideally, I’d like the ES330 or ES350, but I would prefer to keep the maintanence costs as low as possible. If maintanence isn’t substantially more than it would be for the Camry, then I’d probably go with Lexus.

[Mike]

Pithy was saying to avoid the IS 250/350 series not the ES350. The IS cars are nice, but it’s a newer more complicated drivetrain layout than the ES/Camry. I think that’s what he was getting at. Pithy’s advice is really good.

My opinion is avoid Nissan. Their quality has slipped way more over the years than Toyota or Honda has.

[Jesse]

[quote=”Hackiesacker007″ post=136406]Thanks for the replies!

Any particular reason why I should exclude the ES350s from my search? Are the maintanence costs substantially higher?

Also, I’ve heard that many of the newer Toyota Camrys aren’t as reliable as they older ones – should I consider something like a Nissan Altima or Honda Civic?

Ideally, I’d like the ES330 or ES350, but I would prefer to keep the maintanence costs as low as possible. If maintanence isn’t substantially more than it would be for the Camry, then I’d probably go with Lexus.[/quote]
IS250/350 are an entirely different platform/car than the ES cars. The reason why I said to avoid them is they have carbon build up issues which can cause the engine to seize, and they are their own platform. They don’t share parts with most Toyotas, making maintenance more expensive.

The main issues with newer Camry’s (any many other Toyotas) are their piston rings. Some of the piston rings start going prematurely, which usually means at some point that you will either need to get your engine replaced or rebuilt. The newer ES’s also seem to have the same problem as well. If you’re looking at a new Camry it will be important to verify that the car is not burning, or consuming oil. If you can look at the service records.

Yes, while the Camry’s are not as reliable as in years past, I think that is true to a certain extent with most automakers. Every car has pattern wear. I know Altima’s had piston ring issues in years past, and many automatic Honda’s have had some tranny issues. If I were you I would avoid the Altima.

[Author]

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