Bad Head Gasket!!!,

[Mike Chose]

Hello to all the dirty people out there.
I hope I am using this area for the appropriate reason, but I am having a confusing issue with a 99 Honda Civic DX 1.6 SOHC D16Y7. The car started over heating and has 160k and I figured instead of diagnosing I would replace everything within the cooling system due to the miles and unknown previous services. I replaced Upper/lower hoses, thermostat ( only one way it can go in, dummy proof), thermo switch & sensor, water pump and timing belt. The car continued to over heat. Found thermo switch to be a little wacky so I got one from Honda and things changed for the better, however…. If I drive locally or let the car idle in the driveway for two hours N/P. If I drive on the highway for an hour @ 70-80 guaranteed to over heat. The radiator looks good, there are no leaks, oil is perfect. I took off valve cover and no milk, and no smoke out of the tail pipe. Block test failed, turned green. Compression to cylinders are all the same and hold steady. Any body have an idea, could head gasket blow and not leak. Another wired thing is when bleeding the cooling system the bubbles never stopped after two hours. The car is 100% stock. Any ideas would be awesome. Thanks

Topic

[Mike Chose]

Also no check engine light was on. I have a elm327 and that showed no codes, I know its not the best scanner butr would thing it would pick up something about the O2 sensors. I think it will not work for fule related issues though.

[Dmitry]

Looks like you have the problem by the horns but here are a few tips:

1) ALWAYS use OEM parts for any essential engine control system (thermostat, sensors, switches). An EVAP purge valve I may skimp out on, but not on my CPS.

2) I’m an engineer not a mechanic, so I would have to say the MLS headgaskets don’t really fail in the sense of the word… the more likely scenario I think is that the aluminum head warps beyond the gasket tolerances due to extreme (and uneven) temperatures. BTW, regarding covering the gasket in copper spray, folks are 50/50 on it.. I’ve done it with copper and it worked great. But it gets very tacky and can actually hold on to dirt, so you have to be very careful and clean! My own car, I would probably do the job extremely carefully and use a Honda gasket (which doesn’t cost $200 btw) and skip the copper.

3) As Eric pointed out, manifold cracks won’t cause an overheat. An overheat possibly could help create a crack in the manifold though; but the most likely cause is going through a nice puddle and splashing the water all over the exhaust. Sometimes cracks just don’t throw any codes, but the issue should still be addressed. No matter how you look at it, oxygen may be getting in, and causing the computer to enrich the mixture, etc..

4) Do the job right. Follow the manual to a tee. Torque the head in 5 increments, not 3. Same care should be taken when removing; I think a lot of folks “help” warp the head even further when popping off one bolt at a time not in pattern.

The reason this happened is because you allowed the car to overheat. Heat is an engine’s worst enemy. If I was a car manufacturer, I would put a HUGE warning light on the dash that would blink “ENGINE HOT!” to grab your attention… but then no one would ever come in for expensive engine service to the service department… Don’t let your car overheat. EVER. Get in the habit of checking coolant level, and glancing at temp gauge occasionally while driving.

Good luck!

[EricTheCarGuy]

A couple of responses to your points.

100% agree that OE parts give you the best results. I preach it here all the time.

Steel head gaskets on Honda’s are rarely a problem. Honestly, I think you had air in the system to start with. Letting it run for an hour really proves noting and of course the fluid will continue to boil. Without the radiator cap on there is no pressure on the system and therefore the coolant will boil. I can’t stress enough how following the proper bleeding procedure is CRITICAL in a successful cooling system repair. Failure to do so can result in cooling system issues. I cover this extensively here.

http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/what-to-do-when-your-engine-overheats

Also, I do not recommend the use of sealants on head gaskets. Let the gasket do the work is what I often say.

The manifold crack had nothing to do with the overheat. It’s a common issue on that manifold due to a bad casting. It occurs more often than not.

Thanks for the updates and let us know if you have anymore issues.

[Mike Chose]

👿 👿 :S Ok Had to go out of town for a few days and this weekend was to put all back together. when I took the car apart I brought the crank pulley to the pointer, the cam mark was good and the rotor was pointing to cylinder 1. Took all apart, the crank was never turned but the head was brought to a shop. When I got the head back i just allinigned the marks to TDC and all seemed to go togther fine, once belt and pilley were on all marks were good and when i put the distributor back on the rotor was pointing to cylinder 1, seemed good and put all back toghter. Car will not start :blink: cranking seems fine but seems that i have no spark? checked for 12v (blue/white wire to GND) at coil =OK, Ohm out coil and is 1.2 ohm’s the book says .45 – .55 ohm’s. Cant belive anything went bad with distributor was sitting untouched on work bench the whole time. I seem to have a habbit of running down the wrong road so before I do this I thought i would seek advice. Am I missing something any thoughts, could use them Thanks

[Dmitry]

Yes, do a quick diagnosis. For an engine to run you will need: air, fuel, compression, spark.

Since you just put this together, I would start with compression. Pull the fuel pump fuse, pull the spark plugs, disconnect distributor and just spin the motor. Anything ejecting from the holes? (like oil or coolant). Then check compression on each cylinder. If all is well, proceed.

Check for spark. Connect distributor. Plug in all ignition cables, and plug spark plugs into them. Drop the cable boots with plugs into the plug holes (without screwing the plugs in obviously). One at a time, pull out a plug and carefully ground it with a tip (I prefer to use a wire with alligator clips so I don’t get a nasty jolt from the ignition system..). Have someone crank the engine a couple of times and look for a spark. Do this on each cylinder. Spark present on all four?

Fuel. Did you hear the fuel pump run for 2 to 3 seconds when the fuse was in? Have someone crank the engine and listen to each injector with a long screwdriver, each should click at a regular interval. Another trick is while the spark plugs are out, you can put the fuel pump fuse back in, prime the system (turn ignition to “ON”, wait 6 seconds, then “OFF”, and repeat two more times without cranking), and then crank and look for fuel mist ejecting from spark plug holes.

Air. Did you plug everything back in? (i.e. IACV) Is there vacuum in the intake when you crank?

Check those things and post back. Otherwise it will pretty much just be a shot in the dark as to why it’s not starting. Other things is confirm you’re in TDC by putting putting your hand tightly over the #1 spark hole and rotating the engine by hand. When you feel pressure building under your hand, stop and put a long straw into the hole and rotate the engine gently until its at the top of the stroke. You’re basically looking for a compression stroke of cyl.1, and then pop your distributor cover off and see if the rotor is pointing at #1.

Sorry for my backyard ways. They work really well when you make sense of the whole thing 😉

Good luck

[Lorrin Barth]

Check that you have a working crank sensor.

[Author]

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