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Greetings Eric,
not sure if this topic has ever come up at any point in time but as a mechanic everybody faces it at some point where you’re working on a vehicle and basically everything about it seems to be built for obsolescence. This is mostly true it seems with European cars as well as English cars. Again, I know you’ve dealt with these cars at some point in your career as an automotive technician and you know how frustrating they can be to work on. I’m sure you’ve seen Scotty Kilmer’s videos where he vents about the complexity of these designs and has now even gone so far as to create a playlist of YouTube videos entitled “bad car designs it’s best to avoid”. I noticed in most situations when it comes to controversial topics like this you often tend to be neutral to these sorts of topics, where as Scotty’s position is a lot more straight forward and a bit exasperating if you will, and rather humorous I must say. Not saying that’s a bad thing because I can certainly understand why you wouldn’t want to create controversy with your viewers. But I was wondering if maybe you’d be willing to talk more about this topic in depth of over engineered vehicles? I know you’ve talked a little bit about the theory behind all of this and why these engineers do what they do, but I haven’t really seen you shed much light in the way of a mechanics point of view. so that’s why I was wondering if you think this might be a good topic to do an ETCG1 video about or if you think it might be too controversial? I look forward to hearing your response.
Michael
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It’s all kind of subjective. Those European or British cars that are unreliable and expense and a pain to repair are some of the best performing and most enjoyable vehicles to drive. So to say they are bad designs is really only looking at part of the puzzle. Everyone is so jazzed up about Honda and Toyota, and they are extremely reliable, or at least used to be, but they’re so friggin bland and boring to look at, let alone drive. You can build something that’s economical, reliable, or exciting, but not all 3.
Fair enough, I’m really not much of a VW fan, although I drove a friend’s 14 Jetta 2.5 with a manual trans to Florida and back and it was a very solid feeling car but was pretty boring. Porsche has very high build quality in addition to being fun, many are surprised by their reliability. But then of course, the price skyrockets, always a trade-off 😉
All I have to say, is what is it worth to have a fun to drive car that feels the road that is always in the shop….
What is it worth to get to know the service writer on a first name basis (I am sure he is a nice guy or gal)
What is it worth to get to know the AAA tow truck driver to get your new vehicle to the shop (once again, I am sure he is a nice guy)
What is it worth to have to have your battery replaced only by the dealer who has to re-code it, instead of doing it yourself of having an indy shop do it…
What is it worth to pay through the nose for replacement parts, and have a car that after 10 years is falling apart, because of “cutting edge” engineering…
What is it worth to have a car that has biodegradable or otherwise shyte wiring, which may be friendly to the earth, but leaves you with a bill for thousands….
If you have all the money in the world, I suppose this is not an issue for those who “must be seen” in a certain type of car…
I have to be at work every day… I can’t afford to buy (or lease) a new car every three years or sell at 100k miles and get a new one… I need a car that lasts…. For those who have lots of money and don’t need to be somewhere, then fine… Good on ya….
Me, I will take reliable and boring everyday… The day I tie my self-esteem, and value of my life to my car, I think I should completely re-evaluate my life….
I currently go on the record as not liking European cars for these and many other reasons, and this is not anything Jingoistic… I really don’t like American cars that much either… don’t get me started on Chrysler… And GM is CAPABLE of building the best cars in the world, but for some reason, they just don’t do it….
Oh, and if you need a lift because your 2 year old Mercedes is in the shop, don’t be too embarrassed to get into my 1999 Corolla… It WILL get you there…
As always this is just my humble opinion and not necessarily the views of Eric or other moderators…
-Karl
For sure, just like eveythin in life there is a trade off. Pros and cons. VW has more cons than pros however due to overengieering. Porsche being overegineered makes sense…it’s
A mean performance machine, however VW has no excuse.TK I believe GMs quality has gone back up. Despite the recalls that every manufacture is having I believe GM makes some of the best and unique veichles in the world. Maybe it’s cause I’m a GM guy but the customer satisfaction numbers from JD power speak for themselves
[quote=”Chevyman21″ post=115306]TK I believe GMs quality has gone back up. Despite the recalls that every manufacture is having I believe GM makes some of the best and unique veichles in the world. Maybe it’s cause I’m a GM guy but the customer satisfaction numbers from JD power speak for themselves[/quote]
Appreciate the comment…
I did say that GM is capable of making the best cars in the world… But they can always do better…
FWIW I grew up a GM guy…. I NEVER, EVER thought I would drive an import…. I owned nothing but GMs and still love the classics (1964-1972)…. I wish them well, I do…
But as Lee Iacocca once said, “if you can find a better car… then buy it…” 🙂
JMHO
-Karl
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=115307][quote=”Chevyman21″ post=115306]TK I believe GMs quality has gone back up. Despite the recalls that every manufacture is having I believe GM makes some of the best and unique veichles in the world. Maybe it’s cause I’m a GM guy but the customer satisfaction numbers from JD power speak for themselves[/quote]
Appreciate the comment…
I did say that GM is capable of making the best cars in the world… But they can always do better…
FWIW I grew up a GM guy…. I NEVER, EVER thought I would drive an import…. I owned nothing but GMs and still love the classics (1964-1972)…. I wish them well, I do…
But as Lee Iacocca once said, “if you can find a better car… then buy it…” 🙂
JMHO
-Karl[/quote] Agree, Lee was a smart fella who had been around quite a bit. Btw I accidentally hit “report to mod” which was right above the “quote” button on my phone here…lol I hate touchscreens. I hope it didn’t go through 🙁
I will report myself for being too opinionated and give myself a 7 day ban!! 🙂
No problem with the report, I will clear it up…
Cheers!
-Karl
GM has made major leaps and strides lately, or else the first two brand new cars my family has bought in 15 years wouldn’t both be Chevys. Chrysler/jeep/dodge really has put out a lot of crappy vehicles. I would know having owned many Grand Cherokees but the 4.0 is solid enough a motor and they are capable enough vehicles to be worth it. My family almost exclusivity only owned Hondas and Toyotas in the 90s with 0 problems but had two very, very disappointing experiences with more recent models. I plan to keep daily driving my Merc at 206k mi as long as possible since it runs and drives like a new car still. Even if I have to replace the engine or trans in the next 100-200k miles, it beats the hell out of another car payment. I don’t think it pays to own a car made after about 2009 for much longer than 8 yrs old, they’re not built to hold up or be feasible to repair.
I’d like to hear an example of “over-engineering”. The term gets thrown around a lot, but I’m never quite sure what people mean exactly.
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=115309]I will report myself for being too opinionated and give myself a 7 day ban!! 🙂
No problem with the report, I will clear it up…
Cheers!
-Karl[/quote] haha I can relate, I’m very opinionated myself. Nothin wrong with it in my mind, thats what makes the world an interesting place to live. If we were all the same where would the fun in that be?
[quote=”stiv625″ post=115310]GM has made major leaps and strides lately, or else the first two brand new cars my family has bought in 15 years wouldn’t both be Chevys. Chrysler/jeep/dodge really has put out a lot of crappy vehicles. I would know having owned many Grand Cherokees but the 4.0 is solid enough a motor and they are capable enough vehicles to be worth it. My family almost exclusivity only owned Hondas and Toyotas in the 90s with 0 problems but had two very, very disappointing experiences with more recent models. I plan to keep daily driving my Merc at 206k mi as long as possible since it runs and drives like a new car still. Even if I have to replace the engine or trans in the next 100-200k miles, it beats the hell out of another car payment. I don’t think it pays to own a car made after about 2009 for much longer than 8 yrs old, they’re not built to hold up or be feasible to repair.[/quote] well said
[quote=”McWicked” post=115311]I’d like to hear an example of “over-engineering”. The term gets thrown around a lot, but I’m never quite sure what people mean exactly.[/quote] from a mechanics perspective and I’m sure I can speak for most of us, we believe in the phrase “KISS” or “keep it simple stupid.” overengieering is anything that doesn’t agree with that in my opinion.
EDIT: for example and I know I’ve brought this up before, the oil dipstick…simple in design and tells you everything you need to know. Now when y’all remove that and replace it with a network of sensors and electronics, I call that overengieering.Over-engineering… This may be a good example. Instead of many separate electric actuators, many Mercedes vehicles use vacuum actuated door locks, head rests, etc with an electronic pump in the trunk. The tubing used will inevitably crack or break after many years, and the aux pump will run constantly to try to maintain vacuum. I just unplugged my pump and lock my doors manually if I feel so inclined (I usually don’t lock my cars, feel free to browse in there at night, there ain’t nothing in there and cleaning up broken glass is the worst).
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