(B18C1) head gasket replacement? DIY? Dealer?

[Josie]

Hi all;

Pretty sure my head gasket is gone on my GSR 🙁 🙁 ! I was driving last night, came to stop light, and saw smoke suddenly coming up from under the hood. There was NO over heat on the gauge but I shut it off right away. Smoke stopped quickly after. So since it was almost dark, I had it towed to my house, and let it sit for the night and went out to take a look this morning.

Now there had been some seepage from the head gasket for a few months (oil) and I always checked to make sure oil was topped up. Definitely didn’t think was the cause from last night. And I saw rad fluid way up high (all on the rad-fan shroud and up near the rad cap.) so I thought it might be a loose clamp or a cracked hose. I opened the cap on the radiator and it was all topped up. Lots of fluid in the reservoir too. I obviously didn’t loose much coolant.

Well I cleaned the area all up with a rag and looked it over. no drips from the night before on the ground, I never had drips of rad fluid before either.

So, I started the car. let it idle for about 2 minutes and looked around the rad cap area looking for the leak. When POOF! Saw there was fluid seeping out from the head gasket almost immediately, (front passenger side corner where the seepage was before). Not sure if was oil or rad fluid (or both) but it was a definite steady stream that would not last long if I kept running! I killed the engine right away. Came inside and started looking at parts needed, tools needed, cost and time for the head gsasket

Knowing my area, the limited places that carry parts for my car, and the fact the Eric would suggest dealer parts 😛 I called the dealer and they quoted me $750 for parts alone plus 12% tax.:ohmy: That said, that’s for the Head gasket, water pump, timing belt (which needed to be done soon anyway) and other miscellaneous parts I guess.

I asked for a labor quote too which they said 8 shop hours @ $130 per hour so price is just under $2000 (CAD) for parts and labor to have the dealer fix these issues.

SO that said, I am wondering:

1) Is my diagnosis right as this being the head gasket?
2) Is the dealer knocking some hours off the clock (8 hours was the quote) for the fact that the timing belt replacement would be easily done since they are taking the head off regardless?
3) Do you think anything else might be toast or do you think I caught this in time to save the engine?
4) Noting that I don’t have an indoor place to work, is this something a novice could attempt to do over a weekend or two?
5)I am looking at my project truck which for about another $500 I bet could be my new DD for now. haha
6 )Is it worth getting the dealer labor or should I buy the parts and find a cheaper place to do the work?

Thoughts? suggestions? ideas? Comments? I do like my GSR a lot and I am going to get it fixed. (I’d have to change my ETCG username if I got rid of her LOL) Just want to know if this is a good a time and job as any to jump up and dig into something more than general maintenance. Or could I end up doing for more damage than good making it a DIY from hell?. Something tells me my 1970 Chevy C10 is a bit more forgiving for newbies like me 😛

thanks in advance everyone. Love this site and all the great advice I get here.

Topic

[Lorrin Barth]

Your thread subject should have been – how do I diagnosis a bad head gasket. Before you break out the tools you need to be sure of the diagnosis. Not being sure about what is leaking, coolant or oil, is too cursory an examination.

If you do determine the head gasket is bad, learn what it takes to replace it. You are going to need a book. The factory service manual is best but some of the aftermarket books will do. You may also subscribe online to one of the fix it sites for not much money. Look for video on youtube.

Read the procedure and then go look at the car to view the things that need removal. There’s always stuff in the way that has to come off – sometimes lots of stuff. Also there is the timing belt. You will be working with exhaust parts that like to rust weld. So, this, I suggest, is the decision point, start wrenching or have it towed.

[Josie]

Thanks Barney.

From what I can tell it is just oil coming out. The dip stick doesn’t look milky and the car never over heated and smoked all that bad. Gasket might be just worn out. ( there is 120,000 miles – 200KM ) on the car.

I do have the Haynes manual for the car and I may attempt it. Actually, if you look to the right and see Eric’s pic of an engine behind my post here, the red block looks a lot like mine. To be honest, the exhaust shouldn’t; be to bad. The car has no rust on it and nether does the exhaust. In short, I’m not scared of taking it apart, its the putting it back together properly I worry about. I don’t want o be that girl that calls for help AFTER I messed something up. As Eric said in a video once I recall, It just SUCKS when someone brings you a car and a handful of parts after they mess up a job. It will take longer and cost more.

Also, I called around and found a reputable after market garage in the area. Yes it is indeed a tuner shop, one of the best in the country I am told, and explained the situation. Good news is their labor is cheaper. $85 an hour. But they wonder if I it might be time for engine rebuild. 🙁 That is a good 4 to $5000 :ohmy: Feeling the up-sell for sure but is it worth it I wonder.. They said they’ll do a leak down test for me on Monday and I think I will do this. At least I will know whats in store.

I think I just need to think the whole situations over. I was out working on my project ride today instead. Maybe I need something on the road first to feel less trapped. I am home on a Saturday night in stress mode and maybe not thinking clearly 🙁

[Daniel]

If the head gasket is that bad you should be seeing white and/or blue smoke coming out of the exhaust. I would start with a cylinder compression test. If the cylinders all have good compression, move to a cooling system pressure test. That should expose your leak. You should definitely check what’s involved in the job cause it may be cheaper to have a shop do it rather than spend hundreds of dollars on tools.
I wouldn’t bother getting parts from a dealer. I also wouldn’t bother having a dealer do the work. If you had a new, high end Mercedes, then yeah take it to a dealer. Any shop should be able to do the work you need done.
Shops have an a reference book that tells them the allotted time for each job. They are supposed to subtract time from jobs like the timing belt if the labor time for that is over lapped by the head gasket.

[Josie]

Thanks thisisbuod

I saw white smoke come up over the hood. Not a big bunch like as if I blew a radiator. No Smoke at all today when I started it up it was just the seepage from the head gasket.

I take it there is now way to just see if it needs a “snug down” to seal again.? Sigh. I wish things were that simple some times 🙁

[Daniel]

Nope. The head bolts have to remain at a specific torque. And even if the problem was caused by loose head bolts, you would have to replace the head gasket anyway. If you don’t see smoke coming out of the tail pipe than it may not be a head gasket. Just try out those tests I told you about. Some parts stores loan out tools so you may be able to get them at no cost. Then you’ll know for sure and not be out any chedda.

[Josie]

As a recap –

1) Saw smoke Friday night coming out from the hood. (not from the rear as I could see)

2) Cleaned the area Saturday morning but didn’t check the exhaust. Saw seepage at the head gasket so suspected the head gasket. (which from what you said if it leaks, needs to be replaced anyway.) Never let the car idle more than 2 minutes.

Q: Would I see white smoke right away on start up with it if the head gasket was gone or does the car need to be warm first?

I never checked the cars rear. (note that morning condensation from a cold start would look different it’s clear or slightly grey, not the white smoke I saw under the hood. )

[Daniel]

If the head gasket is that bad than you would see smoke at the exhaust as soon as you start it. It would either be blue-ish from burning oil or it would be white and have a sweet kinda smell. This is not a proper way to diagnose a headgasket though. If you could post some pictures it might help.
Regardless; you need to do a compression test on the motor THEN a cooling system pressure test.
With out these tests being performed you can not definitively diagnose the problem. So you can either do the tests or risk throwing money at a problem that doesn’t exist.
Not trying to be rude, but you can talk and talk about this issue or you can do the tests and resolve it.

[Josie]

Completely understand and I’ll try to post pictures today. NO offense taken at all. Thanks for clarifying the start up smoke issue. It is indeed a quick and easy way to see large amount of coolant are getting into the combustion chamber. I am not meaning that the car is fine. I just wanted to confirm if normal operating temp / (open thermostat pressure) is needed to confirm the white smoke or not.

I understand that a head gasket problem is a head gasket problem regardless of symptoms. An externally leaking one (As mine is clearly doing) is still a poor gasket, just as much as a one that has coolant getting into the combustion chamber. I am now just trying to find out the severity of the problem I’ll be tying the compression test today (weather permitting) but I don’t have access to a coolant pressure tester. One test is better than none I suppose. I’ll keep you posted 🙂

thanks again for your help

[Daniel]

Write down and answer all of these:
1. condition/smell of exhaust at tail pipe
2. is there a build up of soot on the rear bumper near the tail pipe?
3. unplug the distributor and remove all the spark plugs. notate the condition of each plug and which cylinder each plug came out of. If there is oil present on the plug notate whether the oil is on the electrode end or the plug wire end.
4. perform the compression test;on each cylinder. write down the gauge reading for each cylinder and if the cylinder holds pressure after turning the engine. Then drip a little oil in each cylinder and repeat.

If the coolant is actually leaking from the head gasket you will see it start to leak out while doing this compression test.

[Donnie]

If its smoking under the hood, something is leaking onto an exhaust, or other hot part of the engine. Itll need to be warm for it to smoke again.

My Subaru had a bad headgasket, but was not burning oil or coolant through the exhaust, rather, it was oil dripping from the corner of a head gasket, dripping onto the exhaust manifold, and burning off as i drove at higher rpm.

It sounds like yours is leaking oretty bad if you observed a stream coming out. I wouldnt drive it too far in that condition. My subaru only dripped oil onto the exhaust, so it was manageable.

[Lorrin Barth]

Everyone who has experienced a head gasket failure thinks what happened to them is the only way head gaskets fail so look for those symptoms. The head gasket seals compression, coolant, pressurized oil and drain back oil. When one of those gases or fluids leaks to another port in the head or to the outside of the engine the symptoms will vary. I’ve worked car forums for twenty years and have repeatedly read where people confuse the valve cover gasket with the head gasket and think they have a serious problem when all they need is a gasket.

The most common head gasket leak on modern engines is compression to water jacket. Combustion gases leak over to the water jacket and push coolant to the reservoir. The lack of coolant in the engine often results in overheating.

Less common are coolant or oil leaks to the outside of the engine. Also less common is oil or coolant leaking into the combustion chamber. Finally, it is possible for oil and water to mix.

If the shop you are taking your ride to is good they should be able to tell you quickly what is wrong. As for rebuilding the engine, do that when the engine is shot. A tuner shop is used to seeing damaged engines due to their clientele.

[Daniel]

hmmm…

Why don’t we just see what the compression test says.

[Lorrin Barth]

Back when car makers started using aluminum heads on cast iron blocks there was a problem – aluminum expands more due to increasing temperature than cast iron. The gasket maker people were quite proud of themselves when they came up with a head gasket that would seal in this situation because every time the engine came up to operating temperature the head was moving on the block. The result of this technology is a head gasket that really likes to seal.

Flash forward to the present and find that failed head gaskets often pass a compression test. It may take the pressure of combustion, sometimes the pressure of combustion at WOT, for the leak to appear. Now, I’m not saying a compression test isn’t a good idea, it will reveal gross leaks.

[Daniel]

Ok…..lets just see what the compression test reveals. Then we can move on to the next step. Not to be rude, but cluttering this thread with information that is not directly relevant to proper diagnostic procedure is just going to cause confusion.

[James Harold McNeil]

So, what happened?

[Author]

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