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Car Fax, just to start. I came across a car that a car fax showed it got inspected in the future because car had approx. 25,000 to 30,000 miles less on the car when I went to see it. The answer I got from the seller was, not sure how that happened. I also like to have some of the maintenance receipts even if done by the owner. If I can I like to scan the computer to make sure they didn’t just disconnect the computer and check to see if all components are operational. Some sensors may take up to 50 to 70 miles of driving to show they are working right after battery disconnect to pass smog.
Honorable Grasshopper, one thing that you do when buying a decent car from a dealer is to read usedcartips.org. This is a plain website written by a retired car salesman about all of the cons that new and used car salesmen will use on people during a car purchase. My father and step mother read the site and not very closely because it said used and not new car tips. They ended up having half the crappy cons that salesmen pull on customers at the last minute happen to them.
Tri9SS has nice points and I would like to add Autocheck to his list. This company is like Carfax, but may be able to check dealer records as well as auto auction data such as “Sold at auction – announced as frame damage” which was a real car that I came across. Autocheck can be used to double check Carfax and vice versa.
Most cars brands and models have similar issues that causes problems or break down time and time again. GM 3100/3400 have lower intake manifold gaskets that need replacing by 150k miles. Most Kia/Hyundai cars all seem to use timing belts on interference engines that really need to be changed on schedule if not earlier. VW DSG transaxles have had so many problems that the recent resale values of VW with DSG transaxles are $1-2k less than manual transaxles cars that cost $1k less in the first place.
I’ve had Autocheck find things that Carfax didn’t – food for thought. On another note they only check things that are reported. I have a friend and his car has been in a major accident and stolen once and his carfax is completely clean – so keep that in mind.
One thing I always keep an eye out for is to always check the automatic transmission fluid level and color. Most people do not change their transmission fluid, and that is why they fail. So if the fluid is burnt, that gives the buyer room to negotiate the price lower because a transmission problem could be on the horizon.
That’s why sometimes I feel more comfortable buying a manual transmission because the fluid last longer than in automatics. Although I still like changing that fluid as well.
Speaking as a mechanic who occasionally does that sort of thing as part of my normal job, here’s what I look for, in no particular order. Before I get in the car, I’ll walk around it looking for any dents, or spots where the body panel gaps aren’t quite even. I’ll also look for parts on the body that maybe aren’t quite the same color as the rest of the car. That may be signs of accident damage/repair. I’ll then take the car on a shor test drive, listening closely for any abnormal noises; roaring from the bearings, clunking from the suspension, squeaks over bumps or under braking, things like that. I’ll also be trying to find any vibrations that may or may not be there.
Once I get back to the shop and into the bay, I’ll press every button in the car. Does the heater work correctly? Do the windows work? Does the top go up and down (if it’s a convertible), does the radio work ok? How about the AC? I’ll get a helper to check the lights for me to make sure that none of them are burnt out. After that’s all done, I’ll open the hood and check all the fluids to make sure that none of them are burnt discolored or low. I’ll make sure that the belt(s) aren’t cracked.loose.squeaking.missing entirely. I’ll also see if anything is leaking like valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, radiators, etc. I’ll also check inside the airbox for critter nests. After I’m done checking under the hood, I’ll set the lift under the lift points and pick the car up to about chest height where I’ll shake all 4 wheels to see if there is any play in the suspension, I’ll also look for things like leaky shocks/struts. Then I’ll pull at least 1 front and 1 rear wheel, although most of the time I’ll pull all 4 off and check the tires for abnormal wear patterns. I’ll then take a look at the brakes to make sure that they’re in good shape. After I’m done with all that, I’ll lift the car higher so that I can walk underneath it, where I’ll continue looking for fluid leaks, worn out parts, excessive rust, etc. I’ll make note of anything that I find one a peice of paper so that the buyer can either decide to buy/not buy the car, or negotiate a lower price. Depending upon how many faults I find, and how big the car is, this entire process may take the better part of a hour.
One of the reasons that I really don’t like doing that sort of thing, however, is because after I go through all those checks, I know that I’m not going to be making any money off of the repairs right then, if ever. Another reason I don’t like doing it is because half the time the customer won’t listen to my recommendations anyway, and then all of a sudden I look like the bad guy because they bought a lemon. I had a customer at a pervious shop who was considering buying a 2007 Chrysler Sebring convertible to replace her 2006 Sebring convertible. This was in 2009. The 2007 had a nasty transmission leak, some obvious accident damage that was repaired by apparently the lowest bidder, 4 bald, mismatched tires, no spare, 4 leaky struts and a strange noise from the rear end when ever it would go over a speed bump. I spent a good hour and a half writing up all it’s various faults and then explaining to the customer what was wrong with it and why I thought that it was going to be nothing but trouble. She seemed to listen to my explanation, asked me some questions that I answered for her, and then she proceeded to buy the car anyway. It left her stranded on the side of the road a week after she bought it, and it was, in her mind at least, my fault because I was “the last guy who touched it”.
The biggest thing I would recommend beyond a solid visual inspection and checking to make sure all the buttons work is a good test drive. By good, I mean, take the vehicle through all the obstacles. Freeway, stop and go, up and down hills, everything you could possibly encounter driving a car. I’ve owned over 20 crappy used cars in my 16 years of driving, and most of the faults I found and were able to haggle over were by putting 30-50 miles on the car. If the owner of the car doesn’t want you to drive it that much, he’s hiding something.
Quoted From Tri9SS:
Car Fax, just to start. I came across a car that a car fax showed it got inspected in the future because car had approx. 25,000 to 30,000 miles less on the car when I went to see it. The answer I got from the seller was, not sure how that happened. I also like to have some of the maintenance receipts even if done by the owner. If I can I like to scan the computer to make sure they didn’t just disconnect the computer and check to see if all components are operational. Some sensors may take up to 50 to 70 miles of driving to show they are working right after battery disconnect to pass smog.
Thanks Tri9SS – sorry for my slow response; I was expecting to get email updates when people left responses to this post but I must not have set that up right. 🙂
We are def. recommending all our customers get vehicle history reports in addition to an inspection because they usually make odometer fraud easier to catch. The maintenance receipts are good too, but I know that some people are better at keeping up with those than others.
Your point about people disconnecting the battery to re-set the sensor is interesting. I’m sure the response of the car is going to vary from model to model, but this is a good thing to keep in mind. In your experience, are you able to catch this by scanning the computer for codes? Or do you use another test?
Quoted From killman:
Honorable Grasshopper, one thing that you do when buying a decent car from a dealer is to read usedcartips.org. This is a plain website written by a retired car salesman about all of the cons that new and used car salesmen will use on people during a car purchase. My father and step mother read the site and not very closely because it said used and not new car tips. They ended up having half the crappy cons that salesmen pull on customers at the last minute happen to them.
Tri9SS has nice points and I would like to add Autocheck to his list. This company is like Carfax, but may be able to check dealer records as well as auto auction data such as “Sold at auction – announced as frame damage” which was a real car that I came across. Autocheck can be used to double check Carfax and vice versa.
Most cars brands and models have similar issues that causes problems or break down time and time again. GM 3100/3400 have lower intake manifold gaskets that need replacing by 150k miles. Most Kia/Hyundai cars all seem to use timing belts on interference engines that really need to be changed on schedule if not earlier. VW DSG transaxles have had so many problems that the recent resale values of VW with DSG transaxles are $1-2k less than manual transaxles cars that cost $1k less in the first place.
Thanks for the great response killman! I’ll definitely go through usedcartips.org. I’ve stumbled across this site before, but I’ll read through the content in a bit more detail per your suggestion.
I agree with your suggestion on AutoCheck. I did a bit of analysis on different vehicle history report options myself, and I came to a similar conclusion: it’s really best to have both, esp. for a high value car. You can see what I came up with here (http://www.onpointinspection.com/articl … rt-enough/ ), but basically I found that you should check free gov’t databases first, then Autocheck, then maybe CarFax, but you shouldn’t really rely on any of those too much to catch problems.
Your information about the re-occuring repairs on certain makes and models is great – this is actually a big reason for the approach we are taking to optimize our inspection process! By taking 100s of thousands of parts replacement records, we can find trends for what parts fail more often than average on certain cars and highlight those parts for mechanics to check. When we get this capability up and running, I will be sure to check to see if we are able to predict these problems you point out here.
Quoted From Third Gear:
I’ve had Autocheck find things that Carfax didn’t – food for thought. On another note they only check things that are reported. I have a friend and his car has been in a major accident and stolen once and his carfax is completely clean – so keep that in mind.
One thing I always keep an eye out for is to always check the automatic transmission fluid level and color. Most people do not change their transmission fluid, and that is why they fail. So if the fluid is burnt, that gives the buyer room to negotiate the price lower because a transmission problem could be on the horizon.
That’s why sometimes I feel more comfortable buying a manual transmission because the fluid last longer than in automatics. Although I still like changing that fluid as well.
Thanks Third Gear! I completely agree on the vehicle history reports. A great article from consumer reports (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars … /index.htm ) found that it was not uncommon for 1 report to miss something and another to catch it, or for all reports to miss major damage completely because of the reporting problems, like you mentioned.
Checking AT fluid is a good point, and it’s something we def. include on our inspection process. It seems like the guys over at CarTalk agree with your point on AT fluid wearing out (http://cars.cartalk.com/content/advice/ … fluid.html ), and I’ll be sure to highlight this point to our customers.
Quoted From 3SheetsDiesel:
Speaking as a mechanic who occasionally does that sort of thing as part of my normal job, here’s what I look for, in no particular order. Before I get in the car, I’ll walk around it looking for any dents, or spots where the body panel gaps aren’t quite even. I’ll also look for parts on the body that maybe aren’t quite the same color as the rest of the car. That may be signs of accident damage/repair. I’ll then take the car on a shor test drive, listening closely for any abnormal noises; roaring from the bearings, clunking from the suspension, squeaks over bumps or under braking, things like that. I’ll also be trying to find any vibrations that may or may not be there.
Once I get back to the shop and into the bay, I’ll press every button in the car. Does the heater work correctly? Do the windows work? Does the top go up and down (if it’s a convertible), does the radio work ok? How about the AC? I’ll get a helper to check the lights for me to make sure that none of them are burnt out. After that’s all done, I’ll open the hood and check all the fluids to make sure that none of them are burnt discolored or low. I’ll make sure that the belt(s) aren’t cracked.loose.squeaking.missing entirely. I’ll also see if anything is leaking like valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, radiators, etc. I’ll also check inside the airbox for critter nests. After I’m done checking under the hood, I’ll set the lift under the lift points and pick the car up to about chest height where I’ll shake all 4 wheels to see if there is any play in the suspension, I’ll also look for things like leaky shocks/struts. Then I’ll pull at least 1 front and 1 rear wheel, although most of the time I’ll pull all 4 off and check the tires for abnormal wear patterns. I’ll then take a look at the brakes to make sure that they’re in good shape. After I’m done with all that, I’ll lift the car higher so that I can walk underneath it, where I’ll continue looking for fluid leaks, worn out parts, excessive rust, etc. I’ll make note of anything that I find one a peice of paper so that the buyer can either decide to buy/not buy the car, or negotiate a lower price. Depending upon how many faults I find, and how big the car is, this entire process may take the better part of a hour.
One of the reasons that I really don’t like doing that sort of thing, however, is because after I go through all those checks, I know that I’m not going to be making any money off of the repairs right then, if ever. Another reason I don’t like doing it is because half the time the customer won’t listen to my recommendations anyway, and then all of a sudden I look like the bad guy because they bought a lemon. I had a customer at a pervious shop who was considering buying a 2007 Chrysler Sebring convertible to replace her 2006 Sebring convertible. This was in 2009. The 2007 had a nasty transmission leak, some obvious accident damage that was repaired by apparently the lowest bidder, 4 bald, mismatched tires, no spare, 4 leaky struts and a strange noise from the rear end when ever it would go over a speed bump. I spent a good hour and a half writing up all it’s various faults and then explaining to the customer what was wrong with it and why I thought that it was going to be nothing but trouble. She seemed to listen to my explanation, asked me some questions that I answered for her, and then she proceeded to buy the car anyway. It left her stranded on the side of the road a week after she bought it, and it was, in her mind at least, my fault because I was “the last guy who touched it”.
Thanks for the awesome response 3SheetsDiesel!
It sounds like most of what you do in your normal inspection process is included in what we recommend. Do you usually use a checklist to guide you when doing the inspection, to make sure you don’t forget anything? When you check for leaks in valve cover gaskets, intake manifold gaskets, and radiators, do you just check for fluids in the appropriate areas or do you do something more sophisticated than this? I really like your tip about shaking the wheels – that’s a great simple and fast test.
It’s interesting to hear why you don’t like to perform inspections, and your story about the lady with the Sebring is great. My company is working on talking to mechanics and trying to gather their opinions on how we can make the inspection process go better for them, and this is exactly the kind of stuff I like to hear about.
Is there anything you would have done differently if you could do it again? Something else you would have said? Did you provide her with a quote for repairs that you suggested for the car she was looking at? Life expectancy of parts that looked shoddy? I’m working to talk to people buying and selling cars now about what info they want from mechanics, but it would be great to hear what you think too.
Quoted From Beefy:
The biggest thing I would recommend beyond a solid visual inspection and checking to make sure all the buttons work is a good test drive. By good, I mean, take the vehicle through all the obstacles. Freeway, stop and go, up and down hills, everything you could possibly encounter driving a car. I’ve owned over 20 crappy used cars in my 16 years of driving, and most of the faults I found and were able to haggle over were by putting 30-50 miles on the car. If the owner of the car doesn’t want you to drive it that much, he’s hiding something.
Thanks Beefy. 30-50 miles is quite a lot, though – is there anything in particular you look for that requires that kind of range? I do agree that taking the car through a full gamut of tests when the engine is both cold and hot is good, but usually that can be done in a bit less than 30 miles, right?
I think what beefy is saying that if someone clears the computer it takes about that many miles for it to show up again….And if seller doesn’t want u to take it for that long then maybe he might be hiding something…..
turtlemonvh,
The main reason I don’t like doing “pre-purchase” inspections comes down to money in all honesty. I know that looking a car over thoroughly, like the customer would want is going to take time. The way my company pays it’s flat-rate employees, an inspection like that will pay, at best, 3/10ths of an hour. That’s 18 minutes, and as thourough as I need to be, it’ll take more like 45 minutes to complete. That’s not counting the time spent waiting for the service manager to track down prices for stuff, contact the customer, bring the customer into the shop if they want to see what’s going on with their car, etc. During that whole process, I’m standing around not making money, when I could be working on some other car. I also know that I’m most likely not going to make any money beyond that original 3/10ths because it’s not actually the customer’s car when it comes to me. They haven’t actually bought it yet, and if they’re handed a huge shopping list of stuff that’s wrong with the car, they’re most likely not going to buy it anyway.
When I’m checking for leaks, all I do is look for signs of wetness, be it fluid puddles, or just dampness below the thing that I’m looking at. I’ll also look for engines that have been steam-cleaned witha wary eye. Possibly, the seller wanted to make the car look as show-room fresh as possible in hopes of getting more money for it. Equally possibly, they wanted to hide some nasty fluid leaks. I tend to expect the worst from people, but that’s just my nature. I don’t really have a checklist that I go through when I do inspections, but I’ve been in this field so long that I more or less know what to look for.
Pre-purchase inspections wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if I got paid on the clock, but unfortunately I don’t. The place I work, as is true for most automotive shops, pays flat rate, which I believe Eric talked about on his ETCG1 channel. To use that same 3/10ths that I mentioned, for me, that’s $6.48 before taxes come out. I think I’m worth more than $6.50 an hour, but if the car ties up my lift for an hour, and all I got paid was those original 3/10ths…
I know it probably sounds like a lot of whining from me, but when you have to rely on getting cars back off that lift in a timely fashion to continue having a roof over your head, food on the table and gasoline in the tank, I’m sorry but $6.50/hour isn’t going to cover that. If it would cover my expenses, I’d have a job saying “Y’all want fies with that?” which would pay the same, but have shorter hours and less stress.
A paint thickness tester goes a long way when checking to see if there were any repairs done on the car. If you’re going to be in the inspection business, you should get one.
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