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So I recently took a part time job at a private repair shop. My real job, is a 7days on 7 off kinda deal. So one week I’m fixing airplanes, next week I’m fixing cars and pulling 2 paychecks. It’s great. I mainly took this job because I was bored on my week off and wanted to kinda expand my own personal skill set (and get paid while I do it)
So my boss is paying me $550 a week cash for 5, 10-12 hour days (so lets say $10 an hour). I’d consider this a very fair entry level/apprentice pay (about what I made when I first got into aviation in highschool). I’ve always done the whole automotive/diesel thing as a hobby but my money maker is aviation. Anyways, I keep getting bitched at for not making flatrate. Like we all know the industry standard for an oil change is .25hr. If I have to rack the car on a 2 post lift, depending on the vehicle I may have 15 minutes tied up in pulling the car around and getting the vehicle racked (sometimes alot less, really depends, jacked up jeeps are a royal pain in the ass and some of the newer ford trucks with factory running boards). I’ll have about 20-25 minutes in the oil change, tire service/inspection, fluid service, light inspection, air filter, brakes, general engine bay inspection, undercarriage inspection, etc.
So worse case scenario is I have to put the vehicle on a 2 post lift and it’s super awkward to get racked, 40-45 minutes from the parking lot and back into the parking lot. best case scenario our 4 post list is actually open, it’s parking lot to parking lot in .5hr or so. I think this is perfectly acceptable, I’ve spoken to other auto techs and they say this is about normal. Yet I’m consistently getting bitched at for my speed (in regards to oil changes)?
Another awesome example of getting bitched out, boss has a jeep TJ. AC compressor took a dump and he asked me to replace it, I looked it up in alldata (that’s what we use). All data says just take that bitch right off and throw it right on… Yea okay, except you can’t get to the 2 top bolts with any decent amount of break away torque (gear wrench is all that fits) with the powersteering pump on. So I dicked around trying to get it off without taking the powersteering pump off, said to heck with this. Took the pump off then took my compressor off. So I had about 1.5 hr tied up in the removal and .5-.7 in the install/AC oil service/adapter plate swap. All data says it’s a .8 R and R and I got my ass reamed for it.
So I’m starting to question my mechanical ability all together, like with anything the more times you do it the better you learn a system and the quicker jobs become (you know what has to come off, how it comes off and what tools work). I’ve been working on airplanes since I was highschool, I’ve made a solid 6 figure income from that since I was 19 from it… I was a lead mechanic for a while at a very large company (over 300 mechanics) in colorado before I left to take my current job back home in Georgia. In my weird area of specialization in the aviation industry I’m a badass, and paid accordingly. I’ve never had an employer complain about my work performance, quality, speed or anything. I’ve had companies go into full on bidding wars against eachother to get me to come work for them.
Yet at my automotive job… I feel like no matter what I do, it’s never good enough. When things are slow and I don’t have anything to do I’m cleaning the floor, cleaning the shop equipment, organizing our cores, taking out the trash, etc, etc. Always busy, or atleast looking busy. I don’t take a lunch break, I’ll maybe take 4 or 5, 3 minute smoke breaks because there’s no smoking in the shop.
I just don’t get it, I’m at a total loss and I’m starting to question my entire mechanic ability…. I know the guy goes through alot of people, I assumed it was just because of the area and market but I’m starting to assume it’s his personality. So what advise do you guys have for me? Because despite how hard this guy is to deal with, dealing with him is still better than sitting around the house doing nothing on my weeks off as sad as that sounds.
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Trust me on this but the problem is not you. It’s your boss and the flat rate labor guides which are BS most of the time. Those guides are put together by panels of “experts”; none of whom have ever turned a wrench in their life.
I’m also a licensed A & P but spent most of my service life in the import car field; generally at the dealer level.I can’t tell you what to do in this situation but I know what I would do if it were me. I’d load my tools and tell the boss adios you worthless MFer.
Now you know why the guy goes through a lot of people; most of whom probably said adios you worthless MFer.
He’s paying you a guarantee and just trying to bleed the differential between that guarantee and flag hours as much as possible.There’s a point where professional pride means something and that is something your boss is oblivious to. For 10 bucks an hour it’s just not worth flushing your pride down the toilet.
I just feel like for $10 an hour… As long as I don’t break anything and I get things done in a decent amount of time than everyone should be happy. I also feel like I get the bullshit jobs that the other tech doesn’t want to do because there’s no way to make flatrate. Like the 2.5 hour flatrate to do valve cover gaskets on a toyota avalon… Yea, okay….
I really do enjoy the work and the extra money is nice. But this guy is just a raging prick. and I don’t do well with having 2 weeks off a month, I don’t have kids and I’m single so I really don’t have anything to do.
Here’s another thing I don’t understand. There have been a few situations where I had to take my personal vehicle to the shop to have it worked on due to personal time constrains or whatever. I’ve had techs blow a flatrate and I had to eat it. I normally accepted it, if a job calls out 2 hours and it’s CLEARLY a 2.5-3hr job, I have no personal problem paying an extra hour of labor. I’d rather have a tech do a good quality job and not rush and do shit half ass trying to make a BS flatrate. Now oil changes and such, I do think those should be fixed flat rate… But I don’t think you should make money on them… Likewise I don’t think you should bill 5 qts of oil when it clearly takes 4… But pulling a transmission, pulling an engine, etc… A flat rate should be an estimate… lol
You’re right of course. Keep in mind that flat rate labor publications are a GUIDE only; something that seems to be lost among management and the morons who publish those labor guides. In the small print forewords there is usually something to the effect of “meant as a guide only”.
Things are worse at the new car dealer franchise level because new car warranty is a factor there and the labor times are exponentially worse. You would be looking at things like .2 hours to replace a halfshaft, .2-.5 hours (note the decimals) for the diagnosis and repair of any electrical problem, 8 hours for a full engine overhaul, and so on. What also happens is that quite often the claim is denied or dies and the mechanic gets shorted because of it.
Since you have an unusual situation, you may be getting screwed over in this manner. You mention the 2.5 hours for an Avalon valve cover job. That may be what’s figured for you or another tech AS FAR AS YOU KNOW. When the customer comes in to pick up the car they may be billed 8 hours for it.
I’ve seen this kind of thing happen so it’s a distinct possibility.As for oil changes, at the dealers where I worked .2 hours was always used but that’s not a money maker at all (more of a money loser) for a flat rate guy.
With labor rates hitting 100 bucks and hour or more many dealers have gotten away from using flat rate on oil changes. They’re trying to compete with the fast lubes by offering 30 dollar oil changes which include tire rotations and brake checks.
It’s the same all over; techs getting the screws put to them.Welcome to the wonderful world of automotive repair.
Oil changes aren’t designed to make money, they’re designed to get people through the door. Because of the price a full service shop has to charge to break even on parts alone, there usually isn’t anything left for labour. Eventually you get to the point of being able to pick and choose the cars that are worth doing proper inspections on. The really crappy ones you just write down the most obvious things that you could get busted for. See: customer claiming that you broke something. Over time you’ll also get a routine down and everything becomes second nature. Personally I found routine to be the best way to improve efficiency. If you’re not sure you did something, you know you must have because you did the next thing. One day when I was working “express” I literally did 2 to 1 what the person I was working with did.
If people wanted their oil change done in 10 minutes, they would go a place that does that.
Flat rate overall is a joke. A bad joke.
First, I don’t understand why someone who makes 100K a year would need such a low wage second job and deal with so much stress? Enjoy your time off, and if you’re having problems it isn’t money that will make you happier.
Maybe you are just geared for what you specialize in and that’s what you do, and can’t switch over. Maybe that makes you good. I’d get away from that private shop before you find yourself out of gear and trying to figure why everything is going out of order. Find a hobby out there. A while ago, when things were slow and I needed extra money, I got a second job at a autoparts store. Seems real cool at first, once I learned their computer and all, it was so easy, but I burnt out fast. Just felt like I had super long work hours. Got a job at a home improvement store in the gardening department. I worked there two years, and I loved it. A couple of times I fixed the forklift with some minor repairs because it was either that or do it manually so I kept it running. That was the only thing where I used my skillset from automotive there. Otherwise, totally different.
All in all, it sounds like you work for a real craphole shop.
I am going to tell you right now that standard repair times, ie flag hours, and/or warranty time are all bull. They have been for at least the past 10-15yrs. There is no possible way to meet them unless you have done 30-40 vehicles and they are all brand new and untouched by other idiot mechanics.
I rarely if ever make the times they want. Why because I fix it right. I get yelled at time to time for it but, at the end of the day I get the shit work no one and i mean no one will do. I also get the shit that has been through 2-3 other techs and they can not fix it. My Service Manager hates me because I am an inevitable result of a broken system. I get the fucked up shit and fix it right to have the company save face. It happens time and time again. Your boss doesn’t understand this or has another tech to fill that spot.
As for oil changes are you upselling? That is the whole reason oil changes are so cheap and you are given so little time. Because you are supposed to upsell and make more money. Depending on the area this can be impossible in impoverished areas. Find shit wrong, do not make shit up but, find shit wrong. I normally go over on every oil change, pm, dot, safety inspection. Though I also have a laundry list for us to pick and choose from to repair things. So in the end we normally wind up with at least 3-4hrs of other work per customer that accepts it which is about 60-70% so it greatly offsets that time. I am guessing you are either not finding enough to upsell or you are not in an area that will allow it.
Once again though those times are absolute crap and barely meetable by people that do it on the regular.
Getting paid $10 an hour and expecting to make flat rate on such jobs is not right on the part of your boss. I assume he is charging the customer shop rate. If he’s gettig you for $10 he must be selling some cut rate oil changes trying to get other business.
Also, if youare an A&P, he is under using and underpaying you IMHO. You should be doing some things beyond oil changes, even if it is nothing but brake jobs.
My $0.02,
[quote=”MDK22″ post=170441]I am going to tell you right now that standard repair times, ie flag hours, and/or warranty time are all bull. They have been for at least the past 10-15yrs. There is no possible way to meet them unless you have done 30-40 vehicles and they are all brand new and untouched by other idiot mechanics.
I rarely if ever make the times they want. Why because I fix it right. I get yelled at time to time for it but, at the end of the day I get the shit work no one and i mean no one will do. I also get the shit that has been through 2-3 other techs and they can not fix it. My Service Manager hates me because I am an inevitable result of a broken system. I get the fucked up shit and fix it right to have the company save face. It happens time and time again. Your boss doesn’t understand this or has another tech to fill that spot.
As for oil changes are you upselling? That is the whole reason oil changes are so cheap and you are given so little time. Because you are supposed to upsell and make more money. Depending on the area this can be impossible in impoverished areas. Find shit wrong, do not make shit up but, find shit wrong. I normally go over on every oil change, pm, dot, safety inspection. Though I also have a laundry list for us to pick and choose from to repair things. So in the end we normally wind up with at least 3-4hrs of other work per customer that accepts it which is about 60-70% so it greatly offsets that time. I am guessing you are either not finding enough to upsell or you are not in an area that will allow it.
Once again though those times are absolute crap and barely meetable by people that do it on the regular.[/quote]
Yeah MD, if we are going to take this thread to a discussion of flat rate, and that is the main topic, you are exactly right. There is a guy in my shop that makes a lot of money, but he sometimes does shoddy work IMHO. There are some jobs that can be done quick wutihout sacrificing quality, but sometimes beating flat rate compromises quality.
Example: A Chevy V8 pickup pays to remove the intake manifold to replace the oil pressure sensor. It can be done without removing the intake and can be done properly. That is one where money can be made without sacrificing repair quality. There are many jobs, however, where you can’t do it within flatrate or quality work is bypassed by some folks In the interest of padding the paycheck.
My $0.02,
Personally, I wonder if the boss is playing games with the paperwork. Regarding that 2.5 hour valve cover job; I wonder if the customer copy of that repair order shows 2.5 hours labor; or whether it’s 3 or 4 times that.
If the guy is running a reputable independent shop then why would he be cutting flat rate times to the customer; IF that’s the case.
He sounds like a guy I worked for in California a long time ago. About a week and I was out of there. Do a 2 hour job in half an hour and it still wasn’t fast enough.
He would also throw in a few add-ons to the repair order AFTER the car was done and sitting out in the awaiting pickup by the owner. Of course, those add-ons were never actually done.
There was no way I could condone any of this so adios.To justify his inadequate pay, he wants you to feel inadequate.Don’t let him. I believe I would just go to auctions and flip cars in your spare time.
[quote=”MBDiagMan” post=170460]Getting paid $10 an hour and expecting to make flat rate on such jobs is not right on the part of your boss. I assume he is charging the customer shop rate. If he’s gettig you for $10 he must be selling some cut rate oil changes trying to get other business.
Also, if youare an A&P, he is under using and underpaying you IMHO. You should be doing some things beyond oil changes, even if it is nothing but brake jobs.
My $0.02,[/quote]
Every once in a while I’ll get something worth wild that a customer will accept. Stuff like rust holes in a frame, shot sway bar end links, etc… No one cares.I did sell a waterpump and timing cover on an oil change the other day. Another tech picked that up and that’s fine with me but still I do find/sell stuff on oil changes. I do a pretty damn detailed job to try and be able to upsell something.
As for being underpaid… Absolutely. My other job pays me a guaranteed $77k a year, I don’t even have to go into work and I’ll get that. With overtime I’m in the 105-130 range and I only work 2 weeks a month. Food is paid for, fuel is paid for, brand new company truck etc, etc. Only thing they don’t pay for when I’m on duty is tobacco and alcohol unless of course I’m taking a customer out then I could expense anything. I have great benefits, my insurance is $30 a month, co-pay is $15 out of network, zero in network. Dental, vision… Deductible is like $1000? I mean I don’t go to the doctor so it doesn’t matter but still, counts for something. Family plans are also pretty good (I’m single, no kids). But, I’m not looking to get rich. I just wanted some extra cash, something to fill my spare time and I wanted to learn.
I do things other than oil changes and brakes. Did an engine change on a CJ5 last week on and off. But when it comes to the shit work that rolls through, I get it. And that’s to be expected imo.
Sorry for the late response guys. I’m on duty this week and its been one cluster after another.
Boss blew up on me again yesterday about not making flat rate and other little shit. I quit this morning and he blew up on me again… Figured it was better to quit than to stay there and risk fighting him/going to jail when I couldnt take his shit anymore… Some people dude.
OP, good job on leaving. Place wasn’t worth a crap.
[quote=”Skillz” post=170577]To justify his inadequate pay, he wants you to feel inadequate.Don’t let him. I believe I would just go to auctions and flip cars in your spare time.[/quote]
Exactly. Well said.
Any technician that could live up to that shop owner’s expectations wouldn’t work for what he paid, nor would he put up with that crap, or probably even work for that operation.
I would look for a big dealership. Like one with multiple buildings and brands or one brand with 20+ bays.
You did the right thing by getting out of that hxxxhole and it’s his big loss; not yours. If this guy is that douched out all the time it could be that he’s going to be a major candidate for a heart attack.
That guy is not the only one out there in the flat rate world that is a slave master. He has plenty of company.
Many years ago I worked for Nissan for a while. The shop was clean, the service manager was fantastic, and every mechanic there easily flagged 65-70 hours a week while only working a 40 hour week.
At some point the service manager retired and was replaced with a total loser. This loser decided to implement a “Team Pay Plan”.The logic behind this was that all flat rate hours each month were put into a pool and divided by the number of mechanics. You can see the obvious problems there. The guy goofing off all the time or calling in “sick” every other week would draw the same paycheck as the guy who was humping it every day. One mechanic flags 70 hours and another flags 30 so both get 50 with the top producer having to cough up 20 of his hours to the dead beat.
This was made worse when it was discovered that the company put their lot porter and wash room cleanup guys into the pay plan. The porter and wash room guys were not contributing any hours to the pool so the mechanics were essentially paying the salary of those guys instead of the company.
No end to the ways they can stiff the flat rate guys. (The Team Pay Plan fell apart very quickly when a revolt broke out (led by me) and everyone quit at once. There was even some mild physical violence involving the service manager. When it settled down they hired us all back and axed the service manager……
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