Adding a 12v Turbo

[techno]

Hi buddy.
I am wanting to add a custom option to my car, I am going to do it soon so I hope
I might get a reply sooner rather then later.

I want to add a 12v Turbo to my car but my car has MAF sensor on the air filter
and I am concerned the extra air sucking inn will give a fouls reading the the sensor
and in return it might tell the car to give more gas to compensate the extra air.

I would like your Suggestion about how I should connect it and what to expect.
I am going to add it but I would like your advise.

I made an image to help you understand what I am talking about plus a link
to the turbo I am looking at adding.

Turbo Boost 12v
http://toptuned.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/turbo-boost-air-intake-electric.html

Plus A PDF I was reading about MAF but didn’t give me any insights
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h34.pdf

I don’t know your rules on posting URLs but this is helping not intentional advertising
and I don’t mean any disrespect.

Cheers

Attachments:

• MAF.jpg

Topic

[Wayne]

In that case just good maintenance, wear item replacement practices (oil changes, tire pressures, replacing components when recommended, etc) and cleanings of intake components is the way. All the rest are gimmicks usually with some negative impact on the lifespan of the vehicle.

[Paul]

I once owned a turbocharged car, but I probably won’t purchane another one. It was a love-hate relationship – great when it ran well, but there were a lot of headaches when it didn’t run well, and I had to be religious with the maintenance. I’m not trying to dissuade you or be a downstroy, but consider the following:

The electric fan seems like snake oil to me. If it works as well as they claim, the major manufacturers would be using it already. Thermodynamics does not allow you to have a free lunch or to break even. A traditional turbocharger utilizes energy that would be normally wasted to improve performance.

A turbocharger does not directly increase fuel efficiency. It utilizes heat, or thermal energy, from the exhaust that is normally lost to compress the intake charge. More air (per unit volume) plus more fuel equals more power. However, this allows for a smaller engine to generate more power than a comparable a naturally-aspirated engine. A smaller engine will have lower static and reciprocating masses, and therefore achieve higher fuel efficiency when you drive conservatively, but not when you hammer it. The mid-80s turbo Regals had a 3.8L (231 cubic inches) turbo-intercooled engine that was surprisingly fast while obtaining ~26 MPG, which was reasonably high at the time. Ironically, a gas guzzler tax appeared on the window sticker.

Boosted engines require stronger internal components. Otherwise the increased pressure stress the interal components – e.g. causes the seals to leak or damaged parts. It’s not a simple bolt-on modification nor inexpensive. It would probably be easier to start with factory turbocharged engine and modify it.

Typically, a wastegate is included with a turbo that bypasses the turbine and directs the exhaust through the tail pipe. The turbo is not generating boost all the time (unlike a supercharger), and there is an actuator that opens and closes the wastegate – e.g. at idle or high engine RPMs. The ECM should monitor the appropriate sensors and adjust the air-fuel ratio accordingly.

[techno]

[quote=”Wayne613″ post=91593]In that case just good maintenance, wear item replacement practices (oil changes, tire pressures, replacing components when recommended, etc) and cleanings of intake components is the way.[/quote]I already do that. it is cheap to run around but power to weight is bad, 2L motor pulling a 2ton van, on the freeways it cost just as much as a 4L motor. running around not going faster then 50 mile 80 Kilometers at the best of times & mostly 35 Mile it’s a sweet cheap ride. however I do drive long trips at least 4 times a year and $250 to drive 500 miles [800 Kilometers] is a joke. now you all got me thinking that it might not be such a good idea. Isn’t turbo’s meant to give better gas mileage and performance?

[techno]

Thanks Hanneman
Now I think I might site on this and have a real good think about it.
thanks for all the feedback everyone.

Idea,
I believe cold air intake is better then hot, would it be better if I could find a way to direct
more cold air? don’t know if I can! just asking.
would A high air-flow air filter allow better breathing.

Interested what tweaks I could think about that might help without coursing extra train
to the motor.

[Wayne]

Performance, yes, but mileage, not usually, efficiency is better so you get way more out of it for not that big a hit. More air = more fuel necessary. In either case the turbo, or marketed to look like one you’re looking at isn’t going to do what an actual turbo setup would do.

This should help:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

[Lorrin Barth]

Back in 1990 a marriage between Chrysler and Mitsubishi gave birth to the Talon, Eclipse and Laser family of cars. These cars were made in two and four wheel drive versions, normally aspirated and turbocharged.

On the Talon Digest, the forum for these cars, owners with the normally aspirated version were constantly asking if they could convert their cars to the turbo version, a seemingly easy project. The stock answer was no, it is just too much trouble, if you want a turbocharged car trade yours in.

Then these two teenagers write in saying it is no trouble at all. The had a NA car they wanted to sell and since they had turbo donor car they made the conversion.

To do that you have to swap the entire engine compartment wiring harness, install the intercooler and all the ducting, change out the engine and transmission, swap ECUs, and even change instrument clusters. BTW, what was different between the two engines was the compression ratio and the turbo version had oil squirters to cool the pistons. The turbo version also had an oil cooler.

Well, they only got one interested buyer, a father looking for a car for his daughter but he was concerned about it being a turbo. No problem, they say, we’ll swap it back and they did.

The point is it takes a lot of work to make a NA car into a turbo even if you have a donor car. That, and it is way unfair how much energy young people have.

[EricTheCarGuy]

If you’re just looking for better mileage, don’t install anything. Do a good tune up, make sure your tires are at the proper pressure and in good shape and drive reasonably. A turbo is a way to gain more power from an engine. It’s actually a good way to get more power from a smaller displacement engine. There are 4 cylinder turbo cars that put out as much if not more power than a V8 twice it’s displacement. It’s all about air and fuel. The more fuel and air you can compress, the more power you can make.

So, if you’re trying to get more power, go with a traditional turbo. It’s a proven technology. As for the fuel mix, anytime you ‘reengineer’ something, you’re going to have to make corrections. Many people that install turbos on non turbo cars have to have their computer reprogrammed, or get a new computer altogether, to accept a new fuel map for the turbo. It’s a lot more involved than just bolting on the turbo and a new exhaust.

But if you just want better fuel mileage don’t do anything. If it was possible to get better fuel economy the engineers would have already done it. Trust me. They’re very smart people and engineer vehicles to get the best MPG possible. Often times there is very little room for improvement in that area over what I just mentioned. However I just thought of one last thing you might try. Remove weight. The less the vehicle weighs, the more efficient it is. This is often overlooked. The heavier the vehicle, the more fuel it will use to keep itself moving.

As for the electric turbo saving your fuel, not likely. Remember it draws power from the electrical system and that puts a load on the engine and makes it work harder. Any gains you see there would likely be taken up by the electrical load you’re putting on the system. Trust me, if there was room for improvement there, someone would have thought about it already. Just because you spend money on something, that doesn’t mean that it makes anything better. In fact, most times it just makes the person who made the product a little bit happier because you just added to their bank account.

[techno]

point taken 🙂
I will not do it at the moment anymore and will keep focus on the more important things.

However just for sake of knowing if a 12v turbo would offer more power might be
something I play with one day just for educational purposes and let everyone know of my findings.
Don’t hold your breath because it might not happen at all 🙂 but I would like to know
if the kit I was talking about did do anything at all. I think I would like to know more
for my self then others do.

I guess for now it’s an end of topic about the 12v turbo; however if I ever do get around
to testing for experimental purposes I will keep you all posted of my findings.
It will not be something I keep connected or want to use anymore as I have taken all your
advise and do agree with most what has been said.

Knowing if something works or not helps with when needing to know for other reasons
if it is worth while trying it. I will use a old car and not mine when I do if I do.

I did ask about why does the conventional turbo need to be connected to the manifold
and not further along the exhaust, would it not be better for the turbo further away
from the heat? any input about this. not important to this topic I would just like to know why!.

[Paul]

The turbo is [probably] mounted near the exhaust manifold to simplify layout, increase efficiency, and reduce lag. Lag is the time it takes for a turbo to spool up and generate boost, which follows an exponential growth relationship.

The turbo is connected to the intake, exhaust, and oil circuits. Also, a control module is connected to the boost sensor and wastegate actuator. So, the turbo is usually located near the engine to simplify the plumbing.

Also, the role of the turbo is to extract energy from the exhaust that is normally wasted. As the exhaust flows through the system, it will cool and that energy cannot be recovered. Also, each cylinder will produce an exhaust “pulse” as the engine fires, and a pulse train is created in the exhaust system as each cylinder fires. The pulses will broaden (like blurring) as the pulse train travel through the exhaust pipe. Again, as the exhaust pulse broadens, less energy can be recovered for increasing performance. Thirdly, the exhaust will encounter drag from the pipe walls as it flows through the system, creating a small amount of loss. Wall imperfections and bends in the pipe will create turbulence, which increases the losses further. So, it’s [probably] best to mount the turbo as close to the engine exhaust ports as possible to generate the boost with the least lag.

I remember seeing a rear mounted turbo somewhere (I believe it was a Corvette or Firebird), but don’t remember the gains.

[EricTheCarGuy]

Mounting a turbo farther back would have no benefit. In fact, the closer to the engines outlet the better. The exhaust is moving faster in this area than down the pipe. Turbos are designed to handle the heat of the exhaust so don’t worry about that. They are also cooled by the oil that circulates through them. In addition to being more efficient closer to the engine, you also have to consider all the extra tubing and plumbing that would be required to mount a turbo downstream. In addition, space considerations. A big fat turbo has a much larger footprint than just an exhaust pipe. Having a turbo under the car would just take up too much space. In short, it’s not practical to mount the turbo downstream.

If you decide to give the electric turbo a try, give us the update. I love learning about new things. Good luck.

[Author]

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