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Hey all… first post, but hoping someone can give a direction to look in. I’m just a back yard mechanic. Took auto shop in high school 25 years ago, but am mostly self/internet taught, so I don’t pretend that I know all that much.
This is for my wife’s ’99 olds intrigue with the 3.5 auto.
I have not been able to get the car to recreate the problem when I’ve driven it, but her description is that after she has driven it for “a while”, when she turns it off to run into a store or something, when she tries to restart it, it will crank for 10 to 15 seconds before it starts. When the engine is cold, it always starts right up.
My first suspect was fuel pressure. I’m not super familiar with her vehicle (I’m a Jeep guy, fixing up a ’96 Cherokee) but I’m assuming it has a fuel pressure regulator, and I was thinking that if this was going bad, it might cause a low fuel pressure issue when starting… I would think it would do it all the time or completely randomly, not just when its warm, but I also know that my wife is not great at observing vehicle problems or very detail oriented in describing them, so there was a good chance that it is happening randomly and she only noticed it when the car happened to be warm.
Anyways, I told her the next time it did this, to prime the fuel pump by turning the key on and off 3 or 4 times before starting. She said it happened again today and she tried priming the pump, but it made no difference. It still had a long crank time before it fired up.
Since I can’t get it to manifest the problem when I’m driving it, I’m wondering what areas I should be looking at. I’ll have to research any testing procedures, but I’m not sure where to even start looking since I can’t catch it in the act, so I don’t even know if its a fuel, air, or spark issue.
I took it to Autozone to get it scanned, and the only code it is throwing is for the ABS, but I know what the issue with that is. She sank the front end in to a snow bank this past winter, and a plug to the abs sensor on the right front wheel got pulled out. I haven’t had time to track the part down at the local junk yard, but since that is the only code showing, I can’t imagine it would have anything to do with an intermittent starting problem.
Hoping for any suggestions on where to even begin diagnosing this issue while its still minor, before it turns into a real issue, stranding her and the babies somewhere.
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Two things you can try. Push the accelerator to the floor and
see if it starts. If it does start better. your flooding. could be
a leaky injector or fuel pressure reg. next pull the vac line off
the FPR while cranking to see if fuel comes out or you smell fuel.http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
[quote=”college man” post=97470]Two things you can try. Push the accelerator to the floor and
see if it starts. If it does start better. your flooding. could be
a leaky injector or fuel pressure reg. next pull the vac line off
the FPR while cranking to see if fuel comes out or you smell fuel.http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems%5B/quote%5Di wounder if he could be experiencing a bad main fuel relay problem like the 1990 to 1993 accord did ?
with collage man on this one
as Collage man said, long crank time then starting is more indigitive of a flooded engine over a lean engine, a engine with a fuel pressure issue i have noticed only gets worse the more you try starting it because it uses more and more of the fuel as it tires too start.
a engine that wont start and after a while of cranking finally starts usually floods because after some cranking the excess fuel vapors pump out and it finally fires, if you can replicate the issue, and the car finally starts if there is a VERY rich smell of gas when the car finally starts this is another sign of a flooded engine.
as collage man said this can be caused buy a bad fuel regulator or fuel injector, i suspect something like a leaky fuel injector but a fuel regulator can cause a flooding issue.
but i still say do a fuel pressure test, because sometimes these motors in the fuel pumps will finally rotate after some aggravation and maybe fooling around with the car shakes it enough too get the fuel pump rotating but i think that’s a precautionary measure…
Thanks for the suggestions. Does anyone know if the procedure for checking the fuel pressure is similar to my Jeep? On that, I just have a schrader valve that I hook up a simple gauge to, but when I bought the tester, the instructions said it wouldn’t work on all GM vehicles.
I’ve tried to find a place online to buy a PDF version of a FSM for the Olds, so I can get all of the correct testing procedures, but the first two websites I tried to buy it from, tried to download other crap on to my computer, so I haven’t pursued it any further. Not a huge fan of the Haynes manuals, as the one for my Jeep was lacking a lot of what I was looking for. But, maybe it will suffice for the basic testing procedures I’ll need for my wife’s vehicle.
I’m with the group, I’m thinking it could be flooding. This may be the result of a coolant temp sensor that’s starting to go bad. It may not be bad enough to set a code, but it might be bad enough to mess up the fuel mix when you try and start it warm.
If you have access to a scan tool you might want to read the live data the coolant temp sensor is putting out. If it doesn’t match engine temp, meaning it shows 60º when you know the engine is warm, replace the sensor and recheck for the problem.
Also, when the engine is cold, the coolant temp and intake air temp should be the same reading. If not, this could also indicate a problem.
Good luck and keep us posted.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=97534]I’m with the group, I’m thinking it could be flooding. This may be the result of a coolant temp sensor that’s starting to go bad. It may not be bad enough to set a code, but it might be bad enough to mess up the fuel mix when you try and start it warm.
If you have access to a scan tool you might want to read the live data the coolant temp sensor is putting out. If it doesn’t match engine temp, meaning it shows 60º when you know the engine is warm, replace the sensor and recheck for the problem.
Also, when the engine is cold, the coolant temp and intake air temp should be the same reading. If not, this could also indicate a problem.
Good luck and keep us posted.[/quote]
Nice, next time I visit my mom. She probably having a pressure regulator problem on a 1999 Mercury Sable. Thanks Eric. I’ll check with this diagnostic concept in addition to the other ideas I was thinking of matching what is above. She also has identical symptoms with also no trouble code.
Totally worth having that live scanner again! My advice: you can get an inexpensive one on ebay but I chose one that didn’t have bad reviews.
One that worked for me, but will not work for all – they have websites where people list if it worked for theirs: Bluetooth Car Code Reader Compatible with Android / Droid / Torque
I can post a buyable link for amazon if it’s desired, but I don’t want to be too much of a salesman. Note: everywhere I looked the price doubled with shipping so they’re hiding some of the price in the shipping.If you already have a Android based phone or tablet let it’s processor do the work rather than buy a scan tool and processor.
good thinking eric! that is also a possibility, if your engines coolant temperature sensor is bad than the engine may be trying too set too rich a mixture for cold starts… but not bad enough too set a code!
so there are the three things that could be causing your possible flooding condition
leaky fuel injector
bad fuel regulator
faulty coolant temp sensor.[quote=”13aceofspades13″ post=97589]good thinking eric! that is also a possibility, if your engines coolant temperature sensor is bad than the engine may be trying too set too rich a mixture for cold starts… but not bad enough too set a code!
so there are the three things that could be causing your possible flooding condition
leaky fuel injector
bad fuel regulator
faulty coolant temp sensor.[/quote]I really appreciate all the suggestions. I’ll borrow a friend’s (former mechanic) scanner and get the real time temp readings, and go from there.
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