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Quoted From 619DioFan:
I would start by checking for any loose or broken motor mounts as well as the trans mount.
Not a bad idea to start here really but I often find Honda automatic transmission problems to be the result of using something other than Honda fluid as well as the fluid not being checked correctly, Honda automatic trans fluid should be checked with the engine hot and OFF not while it’s running, if the fluid is not at the correct level it will cause shifting problems. Lastly if the transmission computer detects a fault it will normally cause the D4 light to flash so if you have a flashing D4 light you would need to pull that code(s) and then you can further diagnose the problem. Here is a link to a video I did on changing Honda automatic fluid.
I will confirm fluid level. I did follow your video and replaced the 3 qrts not too long ago. And the reason for doing that was this problem. There was no difference. All this started after I had a shop perform the flush using 12 qrts honda atf. When I got the car back that day the transmission was very smooth (noticeably), a few weeks later I got off the highway and stopped at the traffic light, and I felt this massive thump, like I got hit from the back. After that day the car had this jurk. Like I said it all depends on how I stop, if I’m not careful the transmission is erratic until it gets passed 2nd. Also want to mention the fluid at the time of 3 qrts replacement was burnt. This is why I thought the transmission was damaged. I could do the flush again but this time I will do it myself, what do you guys think?
The fluid level was too high so I drained some. The drive has improved a bit. I was thinking about flushing the fluid (3 qrt/drive cycle) and see if things get back to normal. what do you think?
One option is to get it repaired. You asked the dealership about replacement cost. If you are good at removing and replacing transmissions, then you could pull it for rebuild or repair and then put it back in. A time saver might be to pull a used one for rebuild and swap. Used transmissions at my local junkyard are $130.
From a ’94 Accord shop manual… (notes “T” and “V” are interesting!)
erratic shifting: probable cause 2,14,26 note V
harsh shift (1-2): probable cause 2,9,15,23 notes C,D,E,V
harsh downshift at closed throttle: probable cause 2,15,23 notes E,T2. Throttle cable too short
9. 2nd clutch defective
14. Modulator valve stuck
15. Throttle valve B stuck
23. Clutch pressure control valve stuck
26. Main oriface control valve stucknotes
C, If the large clutch piston O-ring is broken, inspect the piston groove for rough machining.
D, If the clutch pack is seized or is excessively worn, inspect the other clutches for wear, and check the oriface control valves the throttle valves for free movement.
E, If throttle valve B is stuck, inspect the clutches for wear.
T, Harsh downshifts when coasting to a stop with zero throttle may be caused by a bent-in throttle valve retainer/cam stopper. Throttle cable adjustment may clear this problem.
V, Throttle cable adjustment is essential for proper operation of the transmission. Not only does it affect the shift points if misadjusted, but also the shift quality and lock-up clutch operation. A cable adjusted too long will result in throttle pressure being too low for the amount of engine torque input into the transmission and may cause clutch slippage. A cable adjusted too short will result in too high throttle pressure which may cause harsh shifts, erratic shifts and torque converter hunting.
I think you can get to the throttle cable and valves from the outside. I don’t know, I haven’t tried! My car sometimes has a harsh downshift just like you describe, as if being rear ended. I’m at 225K miles.
There are test ports for measuring clutch pressures and throttle B pressure, but the set up is too dangerous for my taste.
To be honest based on your additional information I’m thinking they may not have used Honda fluid, impossible to prove however but the fact the fluid level was also an issue it’s another possible problem as this can aerate the fluid causing damage the the clutches. You may have to replace the transmission by the sound of it, I recommend this because I haven’t found too many shops that are capable of rebuilding Honda transmissions well and from what I’ve seen this is something they don’t do at the dealer (at least at the one where I worked). Given that those transmission aren’t normally a problem you might do well to replace it with a used unit if the problem does not improve and gets worse. I often do a search at this site to help find parts like that.
When I approached the shop for the flush, right from the get go he said he needed to use honda atf only for this flush and it was going to cost a bit more. So I have to take his word that it was honda atf. About the burnt fluid, I did replace 3 qrts not too long ago. Do you think its worth the money to flush one more time to remove burnt fluid. I would be doing it myself.
To be honest if you have a know shifting problem and have already tried to correct it by changing the fluid in the past it’s not likely another fluid change will make much difference.
Sorry about the confusion. Before the flush my transmission was fine. After the flush its having the shifting problem. Once I discovered the jerk, I checked the fluid and it was burnt ( fluid level was high, but I thought the shop would have put in the correct amount), so I was confused since I just had it flushed. A year went by and I decided to change only 3 qrts. Things didn’t get any better, I was mainly trying to make the transmission last a little longer with newer fluid. After talking to you guys I removed some of the trans fluid and things were much better, the jerk during stopping is less frequent, it was happening every time before. Previously I was getting gear engagement delay while picking up from a turn, now that’s gone. So things have improved but the fluid is still partially burnt from the shop flush. I appreciate your help.
Prior to the differential bearings failing in my transmission–same trans as yours—I questioned 3 different Honda dealers about “power flushing” the transmission. All three stated that “power flushing” will likely dislodge junk in the transmission which will eventually clog the valve body and various valves. The recommended Honda procedure for “full fluid exchange” is drain and fill 3-4 times over a 3-4 week period. While this won’t give you 100% fresh fluid in the trans, it’s apparently about 95%. As an alternate, and this is what the dealer does for a “transmission service”, drain and fill approximately 3 quarts. Hondas of this era don’t have serviceable transmission filters. Sorry to say that if you’ve got burnt fluid, your transmission is already likely cooked.
A couple of questions I’d pose to whomever did your transmission service:
Did they do a “power flush” or the drain and fill procedure?
Did they use Honda Z1 fluid or its replacement DW1?I’ve read a few accounts on the Honda forums where the new DW1 doesn’t play well with older transmissions. While it does help eliminate the cold start 1-2 “shift slam”, it may also cause nearly worn out clutch packs to start to slip. I never had a chance to try DW1 in my trans before the bearings gave out, so, I can’t comment one way or the other.
Its hard to say what exactly happened to this transmission. My fluid level was very high, what damage can that cause? Can that cause the over heating and burn the fluid? Did the flush caused the problem? Basically friction causes heat, heat then changes the chemical structure of the fluid, making it less effective as a lubricant, and heat exchange. Since I have no idea what’s inside the trans. I am thinking about just leaving it alone and maybe doing a 3 qrt replacement every year.
I’m not a fan of flushing Honda transmissions for the reasons stated above. That said the fact that your transmission was overfilled creates the possibility to aerate the fluid causing the clutches to slip and accelerate the wear on the internals due to overheating. In short I don’t think there is anything you can do besides replace it to repair the problem as it will probably only get worst till it fails completely. The 2 main causes of transmission failure on those units in my experience is either using fluid other than Honda OR overfilling them.
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