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Long story short…
I developed this noise yesterday.
Little history on the car.. has 109k on the body, 8k on the motor. it has a junkyard engine with a remanufactured head on it, that i did last march. It has about 8,000 miles on it now and has run perfectly. No misfires, check engine lights, surges, stalls.. nothing. not even a single leak!
Yesterday I came across this noise. it’s very intermittent. It went away completely for an hour, and then this morning it was back for about 3 mins and went away until it warmed up, and then i took the following video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djeZy84lw_k
You can hear the worst of the noise around 2:30 and its pretty much staying all the time now.
I’ve tried for hours to find this noise.. i have the timing cover off, serpentine belt off, ive checked the water pump, timing belt tensioner, behind the inspection shield at the flywheel, under the boot to the clutch fork, put my stethoscope at the oil pump and every place i can reach on the block.
i’ve checked the oil multiple times on the dipstick, drained the oil and sifted through it with no metallic particles of any kind. Havent cut the filter yet, but i dont see anything worthy of doing so. I pulled the lifters out from the head, and they are perfect.. no camshaft scoring and no metallic wear. Oil pressure is reaching the top of the head.. i ran it without the valve cover on and oil sprayed everywhere.
My next step is to drop the pan and check for a loose rod bearing or anything making metal to metal contact. It is definitely engine speed/rotation related. But it has me stumped because it comes and goes randomly. The car runs perfectly otherwise. All plugs are clean and no damage. It’s not a dropped valve seat.. already played that game. that’s why i changed the engine last time. lol
Any other suggestions? Its definitely something rubbing/hitting metal to metal.. i want to think its a worn bearing, but without looking i cant tell. Its the only thing i didnt change with the junkyard motor.
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Replies
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there is your problem!! you have a chip munch in your engine lol this maybe a tuff one for sure. since you have checked everything easy to see all i have would be deeper in the flywheel area or some place inside the engine. sounds kinda tinny to be any hard part inside but maybe a piston skurt broke and could make that high pitch.
To me it sounds like something driven by the drive belt, I can see you have a new tensioner and belt on there but perhaps the bearings in one of the accessories is going causing the noise. I would remove the belt and spin all the accessories to see if I could find one that felt rough or made noise when I spun it by hand.
Quoted From EricTheCarGuy:
To me it sounds like something driven by the drive belt, I can see you have a new tensioner and belt on there but perhaps the bearings in one of the accessories is going causing the noise. I would remove the belt and spin all the accessories to see if I could find one that felt rough or made noise when I spun it by hand.
Thank you for the reply Eric. I’ve been following your videos a lot, and as a technician of 5 years, you’ve taught me a lot.
As far as your reply.. I know my post was long, but I had already removed the belt and timing cover and flywheel inspection plate. The video i took showed it all together. I’ve also removed the oil pan to check for loose bearings, anything scraping, metallic particles, bottom side piston damage, or any flywheel damage. I cannot find any problems at all so im about to put it all back together and listen for the sound once again.
It’s obviously something making contact somewhere, but i do not believe it to be bottom end damage. It comes and goes and will go away with rpm most of the time. I’ll keep you all updated on what I find.. this is by far one of toughest noises i’ve ever tracked.
Quoted From college man:
check the distributor drive gear.
definitely something that rotates.No distributor on this engine. It has a coil pack.
Good suggestion though, i’ve heard many worn bearings on cam synchronizers on fords (3.0 and 3.8) make this very sound.
You didn’t mention checking the alternator, power steering pump, or AC compressor, THAT is what I was referring to. Also not a bad idea to check the balancer itself as I’ve seen occasion where the rubber insert came apart and caused noise and belt problems.
Quoted From EricTheCarGuy:
You didn’t mention checking the alternator, power steering pump, or AC compressor, THAT is what I was referring to. Also not a bad idea to check the balancer itself as I’ve seen occasion where the rubber insert came apart and caused noise and belt problems.
I have the belt off completely, but I have checked and spun all of the accessories independently. Also the timing belt tensioner is less than 1500 miles old.
Today i did a compression test and took a video of the new sound. It’s now consistent and louder. I realize running it is not a good thing.. but its going to be replaced regardless, and im definitely not driving it.
Video of the new sound: http://youtu.be/YyR4oSCPKlA
Compression test results:
[b][i]#1 200
#2 200
#3 180
#4 120[/i][/b]ALLdata shows that compression should be between 170-207 psi.
No change on a wet test on any cylinder.
That’s a 60% variation between high and low. I dont have my leakdown tester here, but that’s my next test.
I also took another video. Something is now physically rattling around in there. You can here something ‘clunk’ a couple seconds in. It’s now constant. Im almost positive its valvetrain related.. i wouldn’t at all be surprised if its a valve seat again, and here’s why..
The first valve seat broke at 101k miles on the stock engine. It pretty much destroyed the piston, but the original owner cleaned out the intake and the piston, put a remanufactured head on it (the very same that is on it now.) and 250 miles later the piston seperated from the connecting rod. This in turn of course made the piston contact a valve at least once for sure. maybe not enough to bend it, but maybe enough to weaken it. I then put an 80k long block in it from a junkyard and used the new head (with upgraded valve seats so it wouldnt happen again), and It took 8000 miles / year of daily driving to finally push it to the limit of breaking again… there’s no way a valve seat should normally fail again in 8000 miles, even on these engines.
Here are the plugs: 1,2,3,4. You can clearly see #4 getting fouled, there’s some incomplete combustion going on… (i realize the gap is closed more on #4.. that was done by me purposely to rule out a weak ignition spark)
at this point i think the easiest solution (if i keep it) is to just drop a remanufactured engine in it. i found a complete long block for $1200 shipped. I plan on keeping the car for a long time, as it only has 109,000 on it and is in mint condition. Im almost sure it’s a valve seat on #4 about to drop due to previous head damage. I wont know for sure until i pull it apart, or i try a leakdown test at TDC.
I would say its with the #4 cylinder. sounds like lack of
lubrication. have you had the valve cover off while running?Quoted From college man:
I would say its with the #4 cylinder. sounds like lack of
lubrication. have you had the valve cover off while running?+1 to this statement. maybe a oil passage is pluged and not getting enough oil.
I would bet on one of the roller lifters that is in the #4 cylinder. As a Escort owner I have encountered that sound before.
Quoted From ytram:
I would bet on one of the roller lifters that is in the #4 cylinder. As a Escort owner I have encountered that sound before.
I thought that too.. I pulled them out and even ran the car without the rocker arms and lifters installed on #4, and the sound was still there.
A broken valve spring is likely. I’ll have to pull the valve cover and check it again. I dont think its oil starved on the top end, i can only run the engine for about 20 seconds before covering everything in oil with the valve cover off.
Quoted From Beefy:
Have you looked at the motor mounts?
yes, motor mounts are fine. it changes with engine rpm. Its 100% rotational related.
Quoted From WOTStang:
I thought that too.. I pulled them out and even ran the car without the rocker arms and lifters installed on #4, and the sound was still there.
A broken valve spring is likely. I’ll have to pull the valve cover and check it again. I dont think its oil starved on the top end, i can only run the engine for about 20 seconds before covering everything in oil with the valve cover off.
I hope it is a spring. Another thing that comes to mind for them 1.9 and 2.0 S.O.H.C. engines is a valve seat that is moving. Been there also. If that is the problem, when she lets loose time for another complete engine swap.
One 1.9 I had, started missing like a bad plug, and or wire. Changed them and ran fine for a few days, then started missing again. Thought maybe injector problem. Came and gone for a few weeks and then grenated the cylinder. Although,I do not remember hearing that noise before that happened. Just remember that noise from bad lifters, good luck.
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