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Hello Eric. Thanks for the informational videos and everything you do to try and help people save money. I am hoping I can get this laid to rest because I have been dealing with this issue for years and have spent many dollars “throwing parts at the problem”. Some history first. The last several years (I believe since the timing belt was replaced) my car will not pass the emissions test (high HC at idle). I took it somewhere else this year but previous years I took it to the same shop, they would make a repair and it would pass (possibly using a different vehicle). So, this year it is not passing AGAIN. Last year the shop said the cat was bad so they replaced it. This year the cat was bad again so I had it warrantied. After replacing the cat the results were better but still too high for HC at idle. It seems to me that the engine is running rich and killing the catalytic converter. I have an oem o2 sensor on order which I am going to replace, but I believe the root issue may be ignition timing. The car runs great, but idle is slightly rough (but that may be a separate issue with alternator, haven’t tested it yet). When I check the timing with the gun at 0 degrees, the red mark lines up (as far as I can tell, paint has worn off). But when I check the timing with the gun set to 16 degrees, the white tdc mark is around 3/4″ off. I am not sure if this is normal. Here is a list of repairs that I have done, not necessarily related to the problem:
3 catalytic converters in the last 6 years, Timing belt (shop), distributor (shop), cap & rotor (self), oem wires, NGK plugs, pcv valve (self), valve adjustment (shop), battery, master/slave clutch cylinder (self), front/rear brake pads (self), radiator (self), fuel filter (self), checked all vacuum lines (self), thermostat (self). That’s about all I can think of. I’m also going to be testing the resistance and voltage on the coolant temp sensor as described in the service manual within the next few days. Will also be putting in new plugs just for good measure. If I can’t get it soon I will have to take it to the dealership which I don’t want to do because it always drains the bank account real quick. Thanks in advance for any suggestions, and STAY DIRTY!
1995 Acura Integra GSR – 136K miles
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couple of things for high HC improper ignition timing,
defective ignition components,vacuum leaks.here are some
videos to help you.So the top video tests for spark? As an alternative can I just remove the spark plug wire for that cylinder while the engine is running? Would it also be beneficial to use a stethoscope on each injector to listen for fuel being injected into the cylinder? As I’ve explained, I extensively checked the timing, but have that specific question regarding checking tdc with the 16 degree setting.
Also…Do I need to short the ecu just to check the timing, or only to adjust it?
you could use the stethoscope to hear each injector.
but won’t tell you if the power is equal on the cylinders.
thats why we unplug them. same with spark. this way it pinpoints
whether its fuel or spark or both.Put in new NGK iridium plugs, but the old plugs looked fine. In the process of doing that, the connector in the wire to cylinder #4 broke off. Replaced wires. Replaced o2 sensor with OEM. Jumped service connector and double checked timing, with the light at 0 degrees it’s set at 16 btdc. With light set at 16 degrees it’s about 1/4″ advanced from tdc (my previous 3/4″ estimate was way off). Checked resistance on ECT sensor and it was within spec and connection looked fine. Checked resistance on IAT sensor and it was within spec and connection looked fine. Checked connection to MAP sensor and reseated it. For the power test video, I disconnect the connections to the injectors while the engine is running? Going to retest emissions Monday but if anyone can help with other things to check I would really appreciate it.
If the plug connection broke on #4 then it was
probably a bad connection to begin with.what brand
of wires did you use? NGK or OE are preferred.The previous wires were OE, and only a few years old. They were not corroded at all. I had to replace them with aftermarket though because I wasn’t able to get OE wires right away. So far the car runs great but exhaust still smells strong.
Makes me wonder if the OE wires have a lifetime warranty, but I would imagine that they do. I’ll call the dealership tomorrow and see if they will replace them.
Well the OE wires only had a year warranty, I’m out 80$ on those. Went back in and got it tested, it failed even worse than before. HC at idle is reading at 508 and it needs to be 220. I’m at a loss.
Eric….If you see this post I really need your recommendation on this, I have put so much money into this car over the last several years. Please man, I will even send you money! 🙂 This is what I need to know:
This all seems to have started after the timing belt was replaced, and I suspect the #1 piston is not at TDC. When I check the timing with no adjustments, the 16 btdc mark lines up. BUT, if I adjust the gun to 16 degrees this should be TDC correct? Because it’s not. So even if the 16 btdc mark is lined up, if the #1 piston is not at TDC to begin with the timing will be off right? I suspect this is the case, causing a rich condition. How would you recommend that I verify this without tearing apart the engine?
Keep your money. Thanks for the offer though.
You’d be right to suspect that as that is the first thing I thought of was the mechanical timing. You can’t properly adjust the ignition timing if the mechanical timing is off so you need to start there first. Also ignition timing should never go out unless you replace a distributor or something like that. Lastly you can’t just hook the timing light up, you need to disable the computer’s timing control first. I’d recommend you check the mechanical timing and take it from there.
Also. Honda’s don’t like aftermarket parts, especially on the ignition system. It was a bad move in my opinion to replace those OE wires. Also to replace the distributor if it wasn’t leaking oil internally. Aftermarket distributors for Honda’s are nothing but trouble. This forum is FULL of people having problems because of aftermarket distributors on their Honda’s.
Also diagnosis is just that, diagnosis. NOT parts replacement. As you have found replacing parts solves nothing and empties your wallet.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Thanks for the info. I pulled the valve cover and checked the cam timing, it was at TDC, so I am not sure what to think. I suppose the light may be off since I did short the service connector. I also did a dry compression test and the cylinders were at 180 psi across the board which I believe is pretty low for a b18c1, but that was before I changed the oil. I recently changed the oil (and failed emissions again) so I will do another dry test, then follow it up with a wet test. I have also been planning to do the power balance test which I hopefully can complete soon.
I agree with you on the OE wires, but unfortunately I had no choice. The wire broke and the local dealership didn’t have them on hand. I suppose if the aftermarket distributor is causing an issue it will show up in the power balance test. Happy holidays.
You say it was at TDC but did you check the marks on the cams? ALL timing marks need to line up for things to be working correctly. If it’s a tooth off it will cause all kinds of problems including high HC emissions. You might also check for vacuum leaks at the intake manifold as that is something that can also cause high HC. In addition check for exhaust leaks before the O2 sensor. If you have any then it can cause the O2 to read lean which will cause the computer to richen the mix. Lastly check the connection to the coolant temp sensor and also the resistance of the coolant temp sensor itself. A faulty coolant temp sensor OR air in the cooling system can cause the fuel mixture to be off.
That should give you some stuff to look into anyway.
Thanks for the suggestions Eric. When I pulled the valve cover I removed the spark plugs and turned the crank pulley counterclockwise until the marks on the middle of the cam gears lined up. I then looked at the crank pulley and the white tdc mark lined up with the needle on the timing belt cover.
I plan to check for exhaust and vacuum leaks next, and also the spark on each cylinder. I did previously check the connections on the ECT sensor and they were good, resistance on it was also within spec. Recently I removed the Oreilly’s plug wires and put OE back on. I replaced the chassis to engine ground with 8 gauge wire and cleaned up the connection. I also removed the map and iacv sensors and cleaned them, the car idles like a champ now so the idle is finally fixed.
I wish I had an emissions tester at home so I could see what kind of progress I am making, would be really nice! With everything I’ve done I’d like to believe the car will pass now, but I don’t believe so yet.
Fromt what your describing it sounds like your cam timing is correct.
Correct me if im wrong but I think the white mark should line up with your timing light set at the correct setting with the SCS connector jumped. When going to your emmision test station do you have to wait a long time to get tested? If so your cat may be cooling down and not working as efficently. Do you get any black smoke out the exhaust? How many miles on this beast? Aftermarket or OEM distributor?
It depends on what you mean by “correct setting” on the light. With the light set at 0 degrees, on cylinder #1, the red (16 degree btdc ignition mark) should line up. I believe with an adjustable timing light set at 16 degrees, the white (0 degree tdc cam mark) should line up.
I don’t usually have to wait long, and they have a parking lot where you wait with the car running to get tested. So the car has definitely been at operating temp when it is tested.
My GSR has 136k miles. The distributor is aftermarket and so is the cap/rotor I believe. I asked the dealership about getting an OE distributor but they told me it has been discontinued 🙁 I will probably put an OE cap/rotor back on it soon if I can get them. No smoke.
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