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93 Honda Accord LX 5-speed
Ok, I’ve searched the forum, and I didn’t find another thread that was unique to my situation, so apologies if This is still a redundant topic,
So, I have a vibration/shake from 60mph and up, sometimes starting lower, and it shakes the whole car and the steering wheel. Not always the steering wheel.
I first had the tires and wheels checked, and they’re all good. Next, I jacked up the front of the car, took the wheels off and ran it up to speed – same vibration exists at the same speed. And I now know it’s not the wheels, because I did the test with them off,
Next, I performed the same test, but placed a camera under the car, because I suspected cv axles (since rotors, hubs, bearings, calipers, pads are all either new or working correctly – and no brake pulsation). The camera showed the driver cv axle wobbling a little, so I replaced it. Still have the vibration. The passenger cv is fairly new, but I swapped it with a known good one just to test it anyway, and still have the vibration.
I also filmed the left and right side wheel wells during these tests, and everything spins true, with no shaking parts visible.
Timing belt has 15k – OE
Clutch, pressure plate, and flywheel also has about 15k – OE
Engine mounts are new (except front) but I’ve heard they wouldn’t cause this type of vibration anyway
Alignment and tire wear patterns are goodI’m hoping it’s not the differential or transmission, but I feel like I’ve exhausted all possibilities. Eric says to check rotating assemblies, and those are the only other rotating assemblies I can think of.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
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What about the trans mount? Wheels were off so lets rule that out.
drive axles? With the car in gear and foot on brake does the engine
have any movement when given gas?http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/determining-the-causes-of-vehicle-vibrations
With the car in neutral/park, and the engine running at highway RPM, do you get it to shake, or does it only shake when in gear?
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. As I suspected, everything is working in the suspension and drivetrain. I decided to take my car in to a trusted independent Honda shop to see what they could find out, since the lead tech there is very experienced with older Honda’s.
He checked everything, and determined that all four tires are out-of-round. Discount Tire kept telling me (after having them rebalance and check three times in the last month) that all tires are good, so I’ve had that ruled out the entire time. So they were very wrong, apparently, because I got a second opinion at Les Schwab as well, and they TOO said I have bad tires.
So, I have cheap tires on the car (bought years before I knew the importance of quality tires).
So guys, now I’m researching tires. Any insight on good quality tire brands for this car? I’ve looked at tirerack.com, and the best ratings are for the Michelin Defender, General Altimax RT43, and some Yokohama, Goodyear, etc. But many of these tires tell mixed stories in the reviews, so I’m wondering if anyone has any advice/experience on good quality tires. Good on noise, tread life, traction, handling, etc.
Thanks again!
[quote=”mikerhart27″ post=158407]Thanks for the suggestions, guys. As I suspected, everything is working in the suspension and drivetrain. I decided to take my car in to a trusted independent Honda shop to see what they could find out, since the lead tech there is very experienced with older Honda’s.
He checked everything, and determined that all four tires are out-of-round. Discount Tire kept telling me (after having them rebalance and check three times in the last month) that all tires are good, so I’ve had that ruled out the entire time. So they were very wrong, apparently, because I got a second opinion at Les Schwab as well, and they TOO said I have bad tires.
So, I have cheap tires on the car (bought years before I knew the importance of quality tires).
So guys, now I’m researching tires. Any insight on good quality tire brands for this car? I’ve looked at tirerack.com, and the best ratings are for the Michelin Defender, General Altimax RT43, and some Yokohama, Goodyear, etc. But many of these tires tell mixed stories in the reviews, so I’m wondering if anyone has any advice/experience on good quality tires. Good on noise, tread life, traction, handling, etc.
Thanks again![/quote]
Nice to see you resolved that!
Michelin and Goodyear get my vote, I see those a lot on well maintained cars. Eric himself has a full set of videos on why tires are important.
For me, I just can’t afford better than 70 bucks per each.Sorry guys, I guess I spoke too soon. I replaced all 4 tires with the highest rated tires I could find, and the vibration is better now, but it’s still there at the same speeds.
I wonder if this could have to do with having aftermarket rims (put on a couple years ago). MB Vector wheels. I’ve heard aftermarket rims can cause issues like this.
Another thing that makes me suspect an issue with the rims seating correctly is the wheel balancing. I’ve had them balanced and rebalanced half a dozen times in the past year (because of the vibration) and I recently noticed that they seem to come out of balance pretty quickly. Nobody seems to be able to balance them correctly. And with these wheels you have to put the weights on the inside of the wheel, instead of the outside. I just got them rebalanced today, and now I can hear one of the wheel weights scraping on the caliper while I’m driving. I didn’t bring this up before, because the shop where I got the wheels kept telling me they were fine. Is there just a special way you’re supposed to balance these type of wheels?
The only other issue I have that I can think of is a small camber issue on the RF. Ever since I replaced all four struts (came with spring and all) two years ago, the whole right side of the car sits noticeably higher than the left. And the RF camber is off by -1 degree. Eric says alignment won’t cause a vibration, but I figure I should mention it anyway. I don’t know whether it’s the struts causing the ride height issue, or if it’s from having aftermarket control arms on the RF and RR.
Thanks again!
[quote=”mikerhart27″ post=158824]Sorry guys, I guess I spoke too soon. I replaced all 4 tires with the highest rated tires I could find, and the vibration is better now, but it’s still there at the same speeds.
I wonder if this could have to do with having aftermarket rims (put on a couple years ago). MB Vector wheels. I’ve heard aftermarket rims can cause issues like this.
Another thing that makes me suspect an issue with the rims seating correctly is the wheel balancing. I’ve had them balanced and rebalanced half a dozen times in the past year (because of the vibration) and I recently noticed that they seem to come out of balance pretty quickly. Nobody seems to be able to balance them correctly. And with these wheels you have to put the weights on the inside of the wheel, instead of the outside. I just got them rebalanced today, and now I can hear one of the wheel weights scraping on the caliper while I’m driving. I didn’t bring this up before, because the shop where I got the wheels kept telling me they were fine. Is there just a special way you’re supposed to balance these type of wheels?
The only other issue I have that I can think of is a small camber issue on the RF. Ever since I replaced all four struts (came with spring and all) two years ago, the whole right side of the car sits noticeably higher than the left. And the RF camber is off by -1 degree. Eric says alignment won’t cause a vibration, but I figure I should mention it anyway. I don’t know whether it’s the struts causing the ride height issue, or if it’s from having aftermarket control arms on the RF and RR.
Thanks again![/quote]
Have a tire shop check to see if those rims are round.
But I wonder if there are specialized tire shops that do things like this? Because I’ve had both les schwab and discount tire balance them and check everything for trueness. Both of them tell me they don’t see any issues with the wheels. But all they can do is eyeball it while they have the wheels on the balancing machine.
[quote=”mikerhart27″ post=158826]But I wonder if there are specialized tire shops that do things like this? Because I’ve had both les schwab and discount tire balance them and check everything for trueness. Both of them tell me they don’t see any issues with the wheels. But all they can do is eyeball it while they have the wheels on the balancing machine.[/quote]
I used to go to discount tire, now I go to Firestone. Simply because they do alignments too.
They told me my front steelies were in need of replacementI just went to Discount Tire because I got my wheels there, and they’ll do free rebalancing as long as I have this issue, but it doesn’t matter how many places I go, nobody gets it right. And I don’t go to Firestone anymore, because they cross-threaded a lugnut, then refused to take responsibility and fix it. Also have lifetime alignment, but they give me a hard time about it if I need an adjustment after replacing parts.
The wheels are nearly new, and both Les schwab and discount tire say they are good and true. I’m thinking they just can’t balance them properly. I’m going to find a place that has road-force balancing. Every time I get balancing done, they come out of balance as soon as they’re back on the car.
I’ve had cases where shops, even a dealership, couldn’t balance a set of tires. It seems that tire balancing machines need to be calibrated, and quite often.
I found an independent shop where the balancer is calibrated weekly. This shop balanced the tires that other shops couldn’t, and haven’t had problems since.
Ok, well I guess I’ll have to do more research on good places to get wheels/tires balanced and checked. The independent Honda shop (the one I really trust, and is knowledgeable and honest) is 99.99% sure it’s wheel/tire related. So, if I got all new tires, and the wheels are nearly new, it must be something about the wheel balance. Hub centric rings fit on the hub, but they don’t fit very tights. They wiggle a little on the hub.
Update: I went back to the Honda shop, and they said they are 100% sure the vibration is caused by the wheels. Simply because they are aftermarket, and don’t center on the hub correctly, and can’t be balanced correctly because the weights can only go on the inside of the wheel.
Also, I inspected everything again, and found that my steering rack bushings are bad, causing the driver’s side of the rack to move up and down during steering. Could this cause a steering wheel vibration? I’ve heard it can, but the Honda shop said bad rack bushings won’t cause anything like that.
Also, if anyone has any advice on replacing rack bushings, that would be helpful. Like how many bushings are there? Do I have to remove the entire rack to replace them? Thanks again guys!
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