Home › Forums › Stay Dirty Lounge › Service and Repair Questions Answered Here › 92 Accord EXR – Code 1, 41, 43
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August 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #440463
Good afternoon everyone.
1992 Accord EXR failed emissions test…..
issues –
NO reading almost double the allowable ppm.
CO% almost four times the allowable reading.The internet and a paper clip helped me pull OBD codes 1, 41 and 43 from my 1992 accord.
Code 1 –
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August 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #440466
@Big C
@ inxsThanks for the comments.
In reply, the emissions test produced the following readings:RPM @ 2769
HCppm – 48 —-PASS —Limit is 62
CO% 1.25 —–FAIL — Limit is 0.35
NO ppm 951 —–FAIL —Limit is 467The car passed the curb idle por
August 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #440467Based on the code for the o2 sensor heater, you should at least do a resistance check for that heater coil in the sensor. There are usually specs for that. If you decide that it’s bad, replace it and see if the other codes go away.
August 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #440464Hi RichWhitehead,
Interesting conditions regarding NOx (oxides of nitrogen) and CO (carbon monoxide). I am sure Eric will be licking his chops when he reads your post. Here are a few comments:
1. Based on code 41, the oxygen sensor would appear to need replacing.
2. Based on the gas analysis, were HC, O2, and CO2 also measured? If so, what were their readings please?
NOx is typically formed when the combustion chamber reaches temperatures greater than 2,300 degrees F. Check to make sure you have proper coolant flow and that your thermostat works. The EGR also helps to lower the combustion temperature by supplying exhaust fumes (hence less gas is being burned in the combustion chamber). I believe Eric mentioned this was a common occurrence with a plugged EGR (http://www.ericthecarguy.com/videos.aspx?vi=d8N-SE047VY)
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3. The first part of the catalytic converter (Rhodium coated honeycomb) takes the NOx gases and reduces them to N2 and O2. The generated O2 gas aids complete combustion (oxidation) of any HC or CO in the second part of the catalytic converter (Palladium coated honeycomb), yielding H2O and CO2.
Hey…I am putting my Chemistry background to use!If the first part of the converter is no longer working, elevated levels of NOx will be seen, and there will not be generated O2 gas from the NOx reduction. Thus, any CO present in the exhaust would not be oxidized properly. You could have a combination of a bad O2 sensor, causing an incorrect air:fuel ratio (rich condition) along with a bad converter.
4. A faulty MAP could also produce a rich condition. However, given the info above, I would tend to lean towards the O2 sensor.
5. How many kilometer is on the converter? Keep us posted.
August 27, 2011 at 11:00 am #440465All three codes are pointing towards a problem with the O2 sensor or the wiring. I would check the wiring first.
I would make sure that the O2 sensor is still plugged in. If it is, unplug the O2 sensor and see if there is any oil or corrosion on the pins in the electrical connector. There are some tests you can do on the oxygen sensor if you have a volt meter. Check for any damaged wiring on the sensor or the harness.
The emissions numbers are likely related to these codes. Once you eliminate the codes, then you can analyze the emisisons.
FYI, high NOx levels by itself is typically due to clogged EGR ports on the intake manifold. Google T2T013.pdf and you will find a good procedure on how this is done on a 90-93 accord. The first hit called TSB 013 on the tegger.com site (an excellent site for general honda diagnostics) is what you want to download. Diagnose those codes before doing this.
August 28, 2011 at 11:00 am #440468Thanks for the updated information. As inxs and twiggy02919 mention, confirm the connections and operation of the oxygen sensor. Does it cost an additional fee for a retry of a failed emissions test in Canada?
August 28, 2011 at 11:00 am #440469Thanks everyone for your willingness to comment.
Looks like I’ll be replacing the O2 sensor. O2 sensor is cracked. To be honest, I’m not sure if it was cracked before I started fussing with the connectors or not…such a tight working space under the car for a 200+ LB character like myself. Regardless, I’ll be replacing it and will update results after clearing codes.Also noticed a tear in the protective webbing of the flexible portion of the downpipe on the side closest to the o2 sensor. …there doesn’t appear to be a hole in the flex portion though.
When reading the codes I couldn’t help but noticing that code 1 was for O2 sensor #1.
and a code 2 is for O2 sensor #2….where is the second O2 sensor on the 92 Accord EX-R?Just so you know, in Ontario, an emissions test is required every other year for cars that are 7 years old or older….notable exception…cars that are 1988 or older are exempt from testing.
Tests are required for renewal of license plate sticker….First test is about $40 after tax….subsequent tests if required are also subject to a fee…not sure how much that is..August 29, 2011 at 11:00 am #440470Your car has only one O2 sensor. Accords started having two O2 sensors in 95 for the V6 and 96 for the 4-cylinder.
There are several codes for the O2 sensor for different problems with the sensor. One code is for the internal heater of the sensor. The other code is something wrong with the signal from the O2 sensor.
August 29, 2011 at 11:00 am #440471Thanks…..no wonder I couldn’t find one.
August 29, 2011 at 11:00 am #440472I was almost positive I commented on this the other day, it all kind of runs together after a while.I:| Anyway it does sound like an O2 issue or at least that’s where you want to start. Anytime you have a heater code it usually means you need an O2 but be sure to check the wires just to be on the safe side as I’ve seen more than one occation where the wires got pulled out of the back of the connector. After you get the O2 in if you still fail you might want to check for vacuum leaks as they are a common cause of O2 codes, beware of exhaust leaks before the O2 also as this will also throw off the readings. Good luck.
September 3, 2011 at 11:00 am #440473Changed O2 sensor with NTK sensor. I have run the car for quite a while and a few minutes at a constant 3000 rpm and not getting any CEL so far. Will give it a go on the road/highway tonight after dark….(no plates, no insurance etc) and see if codes show up then…
September 3, 2011 at 11:00 am #440474Quoted From inxs:
All three codes are pointing towards a problem with the O2 sensor or the wiring. I would check the wiring first.
I would make sure that the O2 sensor is still plugged in. If it is, unplug the O2 sensor and see if there is any oil or corrosion on the pins in the electrical connector. There are some tests you can do on the oxygen sensor if you have a volt meter. Check for any damaged wiring on the sensor or the harness.
The emissions numbers are likely related to these codes. Once you eliminate the codes, then you can analyze the emisisons.
FYI, high NOx levels by itself is typically due to clogged EGR ports on the intake manifold. Google T2T013.pdf and you will find a good procedure on how this is done on a 90-93 accord. The first hit called TSB 013 on the tegger.com site (an excellent site for general honda diagnostics) is what you want to download. Diagnose those codes before doing this.
I agree to start with replacing the O2 but there may be other issues with the EGR or cat as inxs mentioned, personally I think your EGR passages may be clogged as well. I would start with the O2, reset everything and redo the test to see where your at. Keep us posted.
September 3, 2011 at 11:00 am #440475Sorry if not clear, but have already pulled the EGR plugs and cleared the EGR passages. Having said that, I have not done anything with the EGR valve itself.
Today I changed the o2, then disconnected battery for a while….I’ll try the road test later tonight and check for CEL after the cops have settled in at the donut shops.September 6, 2011 at 11:00 am #440476Okay…so the O2 Sensor is changed.
Follow-up emissions test….
Result —-FAILRPM @ 2561
HCppm – 20 —-PASS —Limit is 62
CO% 0.00 —–PASS — Limit is 0.35
NO ppm 1783 —–FAIL —Limit is 467The car passed the curb idle portion of the test with the following readings:
RPM 710
HC ppm – 38 —PASS — Limit 200
CO % 0.00 —PASS —Limit 1.00So changing the O2 has helped significantly with the CO reading and the HC but now I’m looking at an even higher NO level.
Vehicle is not throwing any CEL codes currently.EGR port plugs have already been cleaned out but I have not done anything with the EGR valve itself.
Would it be a wise move to remove and clean out the EGR valve?
How about running Seafoam through the throttle body?Any comments/suggestions?
September 7, 2011 at 11:00 am #440477Great update! Glad that the CO levels are now good. Can you physically attempt to open up the EGR valve? If your EGR valve is operated off vacuum, apply vacuum to the valve. During idle, the engine should stall if you open the EGR valve. That being said, if the EGR valve is opened at idle and the car does not stall, that would indicate a plugged EGR valve. (since the EGR passageways have already been cleaned).
The pintle inside the EGR could be stuck and/or gummed up. Keep us posted.
September 7, 2011 at 11:00 am #440478@Big C
Prior to reading your post I went ahead and removed the EGR valve itself.
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