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Hello everyone! I hope to make this a work log of sorts. I will be picking up where I left off at another forum. It was a computer forum that I have been part of for some time. I wasn’t getting bad info there or anything. I just figured that a vehicle mod/repair forum would be a better place for me to get information. Enough about that.
My 91 Honda Civic Si is my daily driver. I have been working on this car along and along to keep it up and running. No modifications at this time. Just a stock engine and body. I am currently working with someone on paint and body. I do the work on the weekends and he lets me use with shop and equipment.
INFO
~165,000 miles
Weak rings (low compression on cylinders 2&4)
New water pump and timing belt (a few months back)
New fuel pump and filter (few months back)
New head seals (few months ago)
Timing Belt and Tensioner changed (9/16/2012
New Altinator and Battery (11/10/13)—————————————————————————————
Timing Belt Problem
[spoiler]**THE PROBLEM**
The most recent issue is a smoking belt. I noticed a new noise, I say new because I am always listening for a different/new one, that sounded like a belt squealing. No biggie I figured. Once I got home I was going to inspect and tighten or change the belt if needed. I was sitting at a red light and noticed some smoke and smell. Decided to pull off at a gas station. Upon inspection I saw a bit of smoke coming from behind the timing belt cover (or so it appeared). It seemed that all the pulley’s were spinning freely and not locking up. The other belts also looked fine; no smoke or worn spots.PROGRESS
I decided not to chance the belt breaking and have parked it at the shop that I mentioned above. We are going to pull the timing belt cover this weekend and have a look. Hoping that the timing has just jumped and that is all.QUESTION
Since I just replaced the water pump I am figuring that that should be fine. I’ll check for leaks and such. Depending on the belt I will replace it. What are some other things that I should watch out for/replace while I have that torn down?[/spoiler]
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You’ll for sure want to replace the tensioner and maybe the cam seal, since you’ll b down there anyway.
Sorry about the double post but the ongoing issue that I have been having is the idle and not the timing belt mentioned above. Before the timing belt this was the only other issue that I was chasing down, other than some performance related worries.
PROBLEM(S)
When sitting at a red light idling. The idle will drop to below ~700 and then return to normal. I have noticed that this corresponds with the fan coming on. Since this is an electric fan I would figure that the RPMs wouldn’t take that big of a hit when it kicks on. I am not sure about how new the alternator is as I was not the last one to replace it if it ever has been replaced. Additionally, when I stat to move from the red light the RPMs will drop slightly when the accelerator is pressed. After about a half second the RPMs will respond. Its like the car lags then realizes that the accelerator has been pressed. (The throttle cable has not been adjusted as it seems to be tight. Thanks for the video Eric!)I have also noticed performance issues. The car has sluggish acceleration; most of this I attribute to the weak rings and low compression. However, when it is a hot day outside and I run the AC; the car becomes almost undriveable. When leaving a red light the car will bog severely and seem like it is going to cut off. This mostly happens with the AC off but it is more noticeable when the air is on. The hotter the ambient temperature the worse it gets. The hotter the engine is… the worse it gets.
WHAT I HAVE TRIED
I have cleaned the IACV or EACV (Idle Air Control Valve or Electronic Air Control Valve). It seems to be in working order and clean.
The intake has been cleaned.
There doesn’t appear to be any vacuum leaks.
The FIV has been cleaned.
–It makes no difference if this is plugged in or not. The car operates the same without it. Seems to be better disconnected, but that could be a mind trick.The IATS (Intake Air Temperature Sensor)is stuck in place and has not been removed.
–Same as above. The car will throw a check light when this is disconnected.–QUESTION
Is the idle randomly dropping normal?
Is the performance hit with AC on normal? If so, why does something similar happen when I don’t use AC?And there’s no check engine light, right? If you have a multimeter, you can test your throttle position sensor and compare it to factory specs. If the ECU doesn’t notice the correct voltage at idle or partially open throttle, then the car will hesitate due to lack of fuel.
I would also use a can of carb cleaner and spray anything that has a vacuum. I know you said it didn’t look like it has any vacuum leaks, but sometimes they’re extremely tiny, but they can make a world of a difference. Especially if there air gets in after the MAP sensor.
No, there isn’t a light and/or a code being flashed. I have not tested the TPS. That sounds like a good idea. I have also been thinking about testing the IATS. You can use a multimeter to test it.
I have done as you suggested before. There wasn’t any change in idle. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t a vacuum leak. Thanks for the tip!
Something I see a lot on those engines is the AC idler pulley freezing up. Mostly this is due to over tightening BTW. I’ve seen them seize up and melt the belt right off. It’s easy enough to check just remove the PS pump and AC belt and see if you can spin it, if it doesn’t spin freely then I would recommend replacing it.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=30860]Something I see a lot on those engines is the AC idler pulley freezing up. Mostly this is due to over tightening BTW. I’ve seen them seize up and melt the belt right off. It’s easy enough to check just remove the PS pump and AC belt and see if you can spin it, if it doesn’t spin freely then I would recommend replacing it.[/quote]
Gotta admit, surprised to see you posting on a new members questions so quickly. Keep up with the videos. Thanks! :woohoo:
Besides that, when I got the car to the shop we did a quick check: AC on, AC off, Lights on, Lights off. There wasn’t any difference in the sound. Neither of the belts were hot and it seemed like the pulleys were spinning freely. I am hoping to pull the belts Sunday and I will check the pulleys then.
Anyone got any ideas on the performance issues that I listed earlier? See post
I was just thinking. There is an additional symptom that I neglected to mention. I had dismissed it as the AC. When driving, once the car has gotten hot, it will sometimes kick. The lower the gear the more noticeable it is. It is like someone let off the gas real quick. I am sure it is different than when the AC kicks in and it will also happen without the AC being on. Could this point towards one of the pulleys locking up?
What an adventure…
I’ll let the first line be the setting for entire post. We, Kevin and myself, had a time getting the timing belt changed. Everything went relatively smoothly until we hit the crankshaft pulley bolt; it was unbelievably tight. We eventually got it broke loose; broke an extension during the process. Once that was off we noticed that there was no keyway. We found one from another Honda that was taking up space around the yard. Once we got the timing belt on we were struggling with timing marks. The camshaft cog and crankshaft would not stay in time when we tightened the tensioner. Turns out that someone made marks the last time the belt was changed. There are factory marks but we did not see them. Once we had taken the cover and pulley off about 50 times we found the marks. Got everything back together and went to start the car. Now it had been sitting a few days. I have had this issue before where the car didn’t want to start after a few days of sitting. We finally got it to turn over and everything sounded fine to me. No horrible gnashing of metal and such.
I suppose that you may want to know what was actually wrong. The tensioner had locked up. The ball bearings had been mangled. Actually surprised that the belt didn’t snap. The book says 2 1/2 hours to do the job and add 1/2 hour if the car has AC. We doubled that time. We had figured that that was about how long it was going to take us with having to run down different tools and such.
Seems to be running a little better. I am wondering if it was slightly out of time before. I am pretty sure that the last person either used the custom marks that we found or they made them. It feels a little more torque(y) on the low end. Can’t say that top end has changed much.
Just wanted to share my weekend car story. banana:
This is the main reason I made this video.
Glad you got it sorted out. Thanks for keeping us up to date.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=31367]This is the main reason I made this video.
Glad you got it sorted out. Thanks for keeping us up to date.[/quote]
Just took a look at your video. I does sound like someone was lost under the hood. Luckily in my situation I was able to work with a guy that does paint and body and had done the same job on the same Honda not to long ago. Our two biggest issues were the crankshaft bolt being incredibly tight and someone had made a mark for the timing the last time that it was done. We were using that mark and I am pretty sure it was wrong; seeing as how the timing was not lining up. Once we found the factory timing mark everything was great. Also helped that we were working on another mechanics property that has more tools than anyone I have ever seen.
Just wanted to follow up some things that I have noticed since changing the timing belt/tensioner.
The car seems to have a little more torque. The kicking that I noticed might have been the tensioner freezing up. Also, when I would let of of the accelerator before the car would decelerate rather quickly, sometimes with a jerk at the start. That seems to have gotten better as well.
I have not had a chance to drive with the AC on as it has been rather nice weather and I like to conserve gas where I can. So I cannot speak on how it is performing with the AC on.
The dropping idle is still a concern. It used to do it real bad and frequently before I changed the oxygen sensor. It seemed to stop for a while after that but it has now returned with a vengeance.
SYMPTOM
Usually happens while sitting at a red light with the car in neutral. Car will be at normal idle then it will drop to near the 500 RPM mark. After a few seconds usually, no more than 5, it will hop back up to normal idle. Depending on the red light it may get to do this twice. Seems to happen more in warmer weather; meaning 80+ outside. Does not matter if the AC is on or off.Try tapping on the IAC valve with the handle
of a screw driver.If the idle changes then replace
the IAC valveIn my experience more often than not an idle issue similar to the one you have is the result of someone adjusting the idle screw on the throttle body. Once they do this the computer is all out of whack and can’t set the correct idle. If it appears to have been tampered with then I would suggest resetting the idle screw according to the factory procedure.
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