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Wife has a 2013 Accord Coupe EX-L, Navi (every electrical accessory). When new it continuously boiled the water out of the Honda battery. So after about a year, I bought an Optima AGM battery (Yellow). Yesterday, she calls and says that the car wont start (Power on, but no start). Towed to Honda dealership. They tell me, bad battery. Replaced battery, car was checked and scanned. No faults, no codes. This reaffirms my feeling that the battery is being overcharged by the car. I often check battery voltage at home with a multi-meter. This car has always shown at or more than 12.6v at the terminals after having sit overnight (not just after being parked). Do I have to by a new battery every 12-15 months now to make sure that the wife isn’t stranded? 2013 Honda has 85,000 miles. She commutes far.
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Suggest you meter the voltage at the battery terminals while the engine is running.
Voltage should be no more than 14.5 – 15 V.
After that should check the charging current .I’m going to guess you have a 4 cylinder with one of the tiny batteries.
This is Honda being a little fucky. They had a similar issue with Civics and had a service bulletin relating to it which they ended at the end of 2015 and promptly purged all existence of. I never witnessed the issue on Accords, CRVs also have similar issue but they have yet to be acknowledged. I will try to explain what I think is happening. Bear with me.
The alternators, like most modern cars have an overrun clutch to improve fuel economy at idle. With the Civics there was a miscalculation with the charging output in the PGM (ecu) software. Basically the alternator would just never adequately charge the battery resulting in “dead” batteries. Since Honda’s generally don’t have charging system issues and their batteries over the last several years have been honestly shit, the go to answer is to replace the battery.
Now the problem is that unless you can find a service bulletin or any mention of a software update relating to the issue, they won’t just do it. Also given the mileage you’re likely outside of any factory warranty or bulletin coverage.
Nightflyr: I understand and agree, but if there are no codes and the dealership gives me a smile and a thumbs up, then there’s really nothing I can do. I honestly don’t think that it is going over 14.5 volts, problem is that it is evidently never going much below that (as “if”) all accessories were on at all times.
DaFirnz: Wow it’s odd you should say that. I had a 2013 Civic Si that did exactly that (dead battery all the time). With the Accord, Honda says, nothing’s wrong. Yes, you’re right this is the 4cy / CVT Accord. That is also what I’m afraid of. This is now going to be a constant problem about having to go through batteries on an almost annual basis. With Honda waving at us as we drive (tow?) by the dealer.
You could install a trickle charger and plug it in at home. Unless Honda is willing to let you pay for a software update, maybe it will help. Every model with those dinky batteries has the same issues. I doubt Honda will ever admit there’s a problem, it’s easier to keep charging customers for batteries.
There wouldn’t have been any codes stored in the PGM because the battery was likely replaced first.
DaFirnz. Civic needed the trickle charger, that’s why I sold it as fast as I could. Accord is the opposite, too much charge. I would be willing to pay for a software update, but at this point, Honda is not admitting that there is anything wrong. So, unless my wife wants to trade (unlikely as she’s still paying on this one), I think we’ll be the battery seller’s best customer.
Evil-i – Yes, I’m sure that you are correct, but there’s really nothing that I can do. With my wife commuting so much, she’s not going to want to continually bring her car in to a dealer just to prove that the battery is boiling water out. Even then, they (dealership) might not do anything.
Well why don’t you check the charge rate as stated above. And why don’t you request the dealer to look into it instead of just accepting battery after battery.
I did have the dealership check the charging system on the car, and they said that it checked out fine. My belief is that the charging system is not charging at above it’s specified voltage, but that the alternator just never turns “off,” it’s constantly charging at all times. This is “best case scenario” as I see it. I take the car in 2 or 3 times to prove my boil-theory (wife will never part with her car for that long and will not want to pay for said inspection). But let’s say that I can get away with that. The dealership agrees with me (long shot), but they agree. Solution, New ECM. Since I didn’t bring this up under warranty, I think that Honda just may say, the cost is on us. With no TSB available, no warning light (MIL, SES), I think Honda will no be enthusiastic about helping. In the end, it’s my wife’s car and it’s up to her what to do – whether I like it or not.
Tests you can do quickly at home;
1. Monitor bat voltage at idle all electrical accessory turned off. Compare to voltage at 2000 RPM all accessory turned on.
Is the voltage always between 14-15v as you suggest?Problem continues.
Using an Amp clamp, the alternator is putting out about 1.7 amps (not abnormal I don’t think)
The battery never gets more than about 14.5 volts – high and low rpm. (again, pretty normal)
BUT this is the third battery we’ve put in the car since 2013 – about one battery a year.
Since the Accord can take the larger 35 series battery size, I took out the battery box, modded the hold down, cut some more threads on the J-hooks and am trying the larger battery (as the 4 cyl. comes with the tiny 51R) Again, Honda technician tested charging system (so they said anyway) and tested good. I’m stuck with the idea that something within the alternator is keeping the field energized at all times, or (fear) that it’s some software in the ECU that is not allowing the alternator to shut down or free wheel.“the alternator is putting out about 1.7 amps (not abnormal I don’t think)”
1.7 amps or 17 amps?Alternator voltage control: take a look at the charging schematic, bbbind.com has one.
The ELD to PCM to alternator voltage regulator circuit.
Voltage measurements of the components can help determine if ELD /PCM or voltage regulator not working as should be.Yes, I really did mean 1.7 as measure through the battery able connection to alternator. On the 20 amp scale it was 1.7XX, when I switched to the higher amp scale it again stayed at 1.7 without carrying out the extra digits. I am more a parts guy rather than a good diagnostician. I will will look at the wiring diagram (I can figure that one out), but I’m not sure what I would be looking for.
Would think normal amp output at idle at least 10 amps.
Maybe there is a point at which output is low due to the ELD regulation.Try another measurement with electrical loads headlights/HVAC etc on.
I contacted the site “ask and expert,” Got a hold of a Honda tech. My symptoms seem to indicate a bad battery sensor (located right on the ground terminal of the battery). Why didn’t the dealership tell me this? There’s even a TSB about this, but they’re too busy charging me diagnostic time. Battery sensor goes bad (that part has been revised – Oh Gosh), the engine computer sees the wrong voltage then continually energized the field in the alternator. Best thing to do- to prove – would be to read “indicated” battery voltage from the battery sensor using a Scan tool (not a code reader). Fortunately for me, this battery (4 months old) already has a damaged cell and is about to fail. Oh Joy! Admittedly, I have not installed the part yet to 100% confirm, but the symptoms and the reasoning seem way more sound than what I’d been getting from Honda before. Thank goodness for the internet and a few good folks still out there.
[quote=”JohnS” post=184995]I contacted the site “ask and expert,” Got a hold of a Honda tech. My symptoms seem to indicate a bad battery sensor (located right on the ground terminal of the battery). Why didn’t the dealership tell me this? There’s even a TSB about this, but they’re too busy charging me diagnostic time. [/quote]
Wonder no more why some people use the derogatory term “Stealership”.
Thanks for posting your finding as it will likely help someone else out.
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