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Hello ETCG friends.
I have a 2008 Mazda 5 with almost 100,000 miles on it. My wife took it into our local mechanic for an oil change. (I can do these myself but tend not to because they charge < $20 and do it in a fraction of the time I can.) Typically they also take a good look at things under the car and let us know about any potential problems they see. Usually the things they point out are pretty mundane but this time was more interesting unfortunately. The first issue was that the brake pads were worn and that I needed new pads and rotors. I've been swindled on brake jobs before, so I checked it out myself. They were right about the brake pads, but the rotors were just fine. Strike one. I already knew the tires were approaching the end of their lives because they were making some noise. But I was putting it off because low-profile tires are stupid-expensive for some reason and the tread looked like it had at least a couple thousand miles to go before it was down to the wear indicator. However, the shop pointed out severe wear on the extreme inside edge. The inside corner of one tire was worn down the cords! I wish I would have taken a picture of it before I bought new tires, but all four tires basically looked like I had been rocking my 5 like this:
The front ones were worse than the rear, probably because I had been putting off rotating them.
The mechanic said that the culprit was the rear lower control arm bushing. He quoted me $160 per control arm (the bushings don’t come separately, apparently) plus labor, plus alignment, plus tax… at the end of the day, it was going to be $700 worth of maintenance right after I just spent that much in tires alone. I did some research and found that the OEM lower control arm is something like $125 MSRP from Mazda. Strike two. When I mentioned this in a follow-up phone call, he began this rant about online parts being inferior quality and his shop doesn’t do that, yadda yadda, interrupting me and talking to me like a child. Alrighty then, strike three, I’ll take my business elsewhere or just do it myself.
Needless to say, I’d now like a second opinion about these control arms. I’m pretty good with electrical stuff, engine stuff and brakes but don’t have a lot of experience with suspension components. I’d appreciate input from anyone with Mazda suspension experience.
I don’t have any weird noises or rattling or free play in the suspension on any wheel that I can tell. I lifted the rear end and took the wheels off for inspection. The only thing that looks suspect is that the rear lower control arms and lateral links both appear to be “cocked” forward, toward the front of the vehicle. I don’t know if this is normal or not, and if it’s not, I’m not sure which pieces need to be replaced. I raised one side with a floor jack to see if they straightened out any under load… they did not.
Here are pictures of the lower control arm. These were taken underneath the vehicle with the camera in the center. (So the camera is looking out toward the wheel.)
These are the lateral links, the “cocking” is more obvious here:
And here’s a diagram of the suspension components for reference. The lower control arm is 28-300A and the lateral link is 28-500.
So: opinions? I could probably muddle my way through replacing the lower control arm and lateral links myself, but I worry that the bushings themselves might not even be the problem. (Like I said, there is no rattle and nothing appears to be loose.) Is there any chance that the suspension is fine and that car is just in dire need of an alignment?
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It sounds like the Camber is off on the car and if memory serves that is not adjustable with the factory control arms, so aftermarket adjustable arms would be needed probably front and rear. Secondly the bushings will be like that when jacked up, they will return to “normal” when lowered back down but will still be cocked. So yes the bushings are problably in need of replacement which will require new arms.
P.S.
Your tires were making noise because of the way they were wearing and not because of approaching the end of their life.Low proflie tires are expensive due to them being a Sport up to Ultra High Performance tire designation. A lot of engineering goes into them.
In short the shop wasn’t really wrong except for when he interrupted you.
Buy the arms and do it yourself.
The cocking parts are not good. I’ve seen parts kick off to one side when the pressure is relieved. But I’ve not seen that much before. I’d swap them out just to call it a day.
If the parts are reasonable for aftermarket, I would recommend “refreshing” the suspension. You would be amazed at what new bushings can do for ride and comfort.
I suggest checking out RockAuto dot com. They have quite a few options for different parts, and normally have outstanding quality. (As in…you get what you pay for….keep that in mind)
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It does look like those bushings could be an issue. An alignment is the best way to find out what’s causing tire wear issues. Also look for other loose parts in the suspension just to be sure. Lastly, some tires wear that way. It could be the tires you’re using. If you have aftermarket wheels and tires, this could be a characteristic of that set up.
I’ll also add that the shops don’t sound off base here. With brake jobs you don’t want things coming back so you often recommend the replacement of rotors along with pads to help ensure that. Also, parts mark ups are common place in the repair industry. In fact, that is one of the few places auto repair can be profitable.
Keep us posted on your progress.
I’ll add this to the mix as well.
When doing a brake job it’s a good idea to “Turn” the rotors (aka, machine them) so you have a true flat clean surface for the new pads to seat into. Sure it’s not always 100% needed…but it does help.
Back in the 70’s and beyond–car makers used A LOT of high quality steel in the brake parts. You had some meat on the rotors/drums to work with! After the gas crunch? Things became lighter and cheaper. Having rotors just at the ‘barely’ able to get the job done? Became the norm. So most shops do not even bother turning rotors or drums anymore. Just as easy to replace with new and call it a day.
We live in a disposable society where $$ talks and people would rather save .50 cents…Then spend $ 1.00 . Even though they wind up spending $ 1.50 in the near future to repeat the job.
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P.S. Go easy on some of these shops. One of our local shops just updated the software for the laptops each tech is supplied. The bill came to over 6 grand per tech. The cost to repair YOUR car/truck has entered very HIGH areas. The shop has to recoup the expenses. Not saying it’s always “Fair”, because I have found shops that pad the snot out of their bills—and don’t even get me started on a bogus “Shop Supply” service charge for cleaning supplies and such. (Charge the extra buck or two an hour and drop the fee. It’ll make people feel less like they just got hosed)
Excessive camber can be caused by a bent spindle, mislocated strut tower, bent strut, worn or collapsed control arm bushing, bent control arm or a weak or broken spring. If any of these parts are replaced, camber should be checked and adjusted as needed after the parts have been installed. And of vehicles that do not have camber adjustments on the struts or control arms, or provide only a limited amount of adjustment, there are aftermarket camber adjustment aids that can help.
TWO control arms for $133 vs paying a shop? You can unbolt a few nuts, right?
Thanks for the insight, guys.
I was probably a little hard on the shop. I know they have to make money and feed their families, but I have a family too and being frugal is part of what allows us to lead high-quality lives that don’t chain us to the earning, spending, debt-carrying consumerist treadmill. And also, if a business gives me the “our way or the highway” attitude even for a second, well then the highway it is!
So I think my plan of action will be this: replace the control arms and lateral links, then take the car in for an alignment. (Because an alignment is beyond the ability of the home mechanic, right? Requiring special sensors, computers, and blinky lights?) And then I guess wait and see how the new tires wear after that.
Before I order the parts, can someone tell me if the Febest brand is any good? I can’t find anyone else who makes aftermarket rear control arms for this vehicle and OEM ones are something like $125 a piece. I found these for $45 a piece and free shipping: http://www.amazon.com/C29128300C-Rear-Arm-For-Mazda/dp/B00ET465J8/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1411398950&vehicle=2008-80-2828————1-0&sr=1-1-catcorr&ymm=2008%3Amazda%3A5&keywords=C29128300C#productDetails
The lateral links are easier to find, there are some on rockauto.com and Amazon, OEM is more expensive of course but not obscenely so.
Thanks again!
Tough call on the brand.
I get worried when I see:
“GERMAN QUALITY CONTROL: Febests German quality control experts ensure that all parts are of the utmost quality. We have specially developed metals and rubbers that create a super durable, and long lasting end product.”
It does not say it’s made in Germany…Just “German Quality Control”? Whats up with that?
In all honesty. I’m cheap by nature. And it’s bitten me in the rear end more then a few times. But if they are the only ones that make these arms, and other searches (ebay, etc…) didn’t turn up more then a 1 year warranty? I’d be tempted to give them a shot. Tempted… I would stick with OEM in this case. Hey, I could be wrong and these arms could be made to exceed OEM specs!! But then again. 1 year warranty? Seems kinda weak.
Do us a favor. When you replace all this stuff, mark the exact position of all the hardware that has slots, adjusters, etc… That way you can assemble it pretty close. I remember doing an alignment and a set of tires (brand new tires) replacement due to an idiot replacing his own tie rod ends. Kudo’s for replacing them. And making our shop an extra $180 or so for another set of tires. He turned in the adjusters ALL THE WAY in for the tie rods. I’ve never in my life seen a brand new set of tires that badly feather edged.
There are times when the aftermarket brand is actually designed to exceed OEM. That’s how they can offer a longer (sometimes lifetime) warranty. But to that extent for a lower price…..kinda weary of it.
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I’ve heard a lot of good things about Rockauto. I’ve used them myself as well and have really liked their service.
Alright, so I eventually decided against the Russian-owned, German-quality controlled, Chinese-made parts and thought it would be better to go OEM after all. In part because I managed to find some OEM control arms a heck of a lot cheaper ($87 each plus shipping). And I ended up ordering the lateral links from rockauto.com. I have ordered from them before, they’re good people like you guys. When I get a discount code, I’ll post it here as a thank you.
Swung by HF this morning after dropping my daughter off at school to pick up an Earthquake impact wrench as well. I’ve been wanting one anyway, now I have an actual need for it.
Wish me luck in a week or so when the parts come in.
Do yourself a HUGE favor.
Start soaking down the bolts that go through the bushings asap and do it daily if possible. Rust loves to get in every tiny tiny opening causing parts to seize. PB Blaster (or your favorite penetrating oil) is your best friend!!
(just don’t spray it on your brake parts…..otherwise that will be a sad moment…)
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