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2006 Honda Civic – Right Rear Brake, noise after tires rotated. Nobody knows why

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  • #883254
    JoeJoe
    Participant

      tl;dr version: My right rear brakes make this noise after I rotated my tires http://www.dropbox.com/s/caxf2khipadddd6/brake.MOV?dl=0 Noise happens on light or medium brake application, not heavy brake application.

      In early August, I decided to rotate my tires on my own for the first time because I didn’t want to pay a mechanic (that I didn’t trust for other work) to do something so simple I could do. I brought the rear tires straight up front and moved the front wheels back and to the other side of the car. When I unscrewed the lugnuts, the tires still wouldn’t come off so everything I read told me to give a love tap with a rubber mallet to the back of the tire so that’s what I did and they all came off. When each tire shifted, the bottom moved outward slightly and then I just pulled the whole tire off.

      After I do this and take it for a drive, my right rear brake starts making a noise when I apply the brake. It’s not a sound like the brake pads are shot because I’ve heard that noise before when I’ve had to get brake pads replaced.

      I’ve taken it to a car shop and they want $300 to replace my “dragging caliper” and they tell me that the timing of immediately following my tire rotation is a coincidence but I don’t buy that for a second. The caliper is only a year old.

      Here’s a link to what it sounded like the first drive. (it’s not as extreme now but still follow that same general sound)
      https://www.dropbox.com/s/caxf2khipadddd6/brake.MOV?dl=0

      I took off my tire and tried to remove the caliper, using videos from this site and other guides but could not get it off. I’ve attached a few pictures to this post of what my caliper looks like. I’ve tried taking out both the top and bottom bolts and using a wedge to get the caliper off but it barely budges (yes the parking brake is not engaged). I’m dragging up the whole system, including the brake pads as well when the caliper moves a bit. I end up having to use the same rubber mallet to whack the caliper back into place for me to get the 2 bolts screwed back in.

      After the 5th try, in which I just decided to apply some lube to the bolts (idk if that actually mattered), the noise stopped. I was happy but I was still very cautious. The noise has returned again but there’s a distinct pattern to when it does and does not make the noise.

      When it DOES:
      – Generally when I’m going a speed of around 40 mph or slower and apply LIGHT or MEDIUM brake.

      When it DOES NOT:
      – When I brake while in Reverse
      – When I brake more with more force than MEDIUM (but not at emergency slamming on the brake force)
      – When I brake with any force from a speed generally greater than 40 mph.

      These conditions are very oddly specific and I don’t know if it all means anything. If anybody has any ideas, I’d love to hear them. I hope I’ve provided enough background information and I can try answering any questions as well.

      NOTE FOR PICTURES: The latter few were taken after I removed the bottom bolt and was trying to get the caliper off. I tried getting pictures from multiple angles so idk how relevant all of it will be.

    Viewing 6 replies - 1 through 6 (of 6 total)
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    • #883257
      MikeMike
      Participant

        That’s a rather unusual noise. It doesn’t sound like a scraping noise that you’d hear if the backing plate got bent and was rubbing on the rotor.
        I think that it sounds like the caliper is shifting.
        In pic#2 & #4 , your lower caliper bolt is missing.
        Unless you’ve replaced the bolt and had been beating on the caliper with a hammer, the confirmation of the caliper hitting the rim is shown in picture #2 as multiple shiny areas focused on the lower part of the caliper.

        Since you weren’t able to remove the caliper, you only lubricated the threaded caliper bolts and not the hex headed smooth cylinder that the bolts thread into, which is what the caliper actually slides along.
        See picture here if you don’t know what I mean http://www.rockauto.com/info/314/18K1052_Primary__ra_p.jpg
        The bolts are present only to affix the caliper to the sliding cylinder portion.
        You have to remove the sliding portion to apply silicone brake parts lubricant not any kind of grease.

        If the bolts are present and tight, look at the larger bolts that hold the caliper bracket on and make sure those are tight.

        This video shows you why you couldn’t remove the caliper after taking the 2 caliper bolts off. There’s a bolt holding the brake hose on which you must remove first.

        (Don’t let the caliper dangle by the brake hose like he does.)

        Remove the caliper to inspect the pads for uneven wear, see if the bracket itself is on tight and make sure the shims are tight on the pads, the caliper clips are intact, etc.

        If everything is lubed and tight with the brakes, you should look at the rear suspension for issues.

        #883267
        JoeJoe
        Participant

          [quote=”Bonnieman” post=190633]That’s a rather unusual noise. It doesn’t sound like a scraping noise that you’d hear if the backing plate got bent and was rubbing on the rotor.
          I think that it sounds like the caliper is shifting.
          In pic#2 & #4 , your lower caliper bolt is missing.
          Unless you’ve replaced the bolt and had been beating on the caliper with a hammer, the confirmation of the caliper hitting the rim is shown in picture #2 as multiple shiny areas focused on the lower part of the caliper.[/quote]

          I made a note of text right before the pictures that the bottom caliper bolt is not there because I had removed it by the time I took the pictures. You are correct though in that the shiny part (which isn’t shiny in a couple of the other pictures) is from me hammering away at it to get it back into place so I could get that bottom bolt back in! I would have loved to remove the sliding portions (as I saw in many videos, eric’s included) but I couldn’t get the caliper off enough to get at them properly. I did buy silicone brake lubricant for this but never really got to use it.

          What’s interesting about the video you linked to is that it mentions a 12mm in the back to unscrew to loose it from the brake line. Similar videos do not mention that, even for honda civic models that have it.

          I was very appreciative of this link http://www.rockauto.com/info/314/18K1052_Primary__ra_p.jpg because what I see is just the hex top bolt and then some rubbery section squished up on it and I really wasn’t sure how I was going to get that off once I got to it.

          But I assume that can pull right out.

          So I guess after all of this, all I can really do is make sure everything is tight enough, apply lubricant to those hex heads and hope for the best. If that doesn’t fix it, my last resort will be for the shop to do something about it.

          It still just boggles my mind why rotating my tires brought this about.

          #883268
          none nonenone
          Participant

            Just by listening to the first video alone, I’d say your lug nuts didn’t get tightened well enough or the aluminum oxide buildup on the hub isn’t letting the wheel seat correctly to the hub when you do tighten the lug nuts. Take that wheel back off and clean that white corrosion off the wheel hub and do the same to the wheel itself with a wire wheel. Then check to make sure you didn’t damage the wheel itself. You’re going to look at the holes to make sure that they’re not egged out and look for evidence of the wheel stud threads cutting into the holes. If those holes are egged out, the wheel is now junk. If it’s not damaged, get all that corrosion cleaned off before you reinstall it and get a torque wrench to torque the wheels to 80 ft lb.

            #883269
            MikeMike
            Participant

              While no_common_sense could be right about the wheel not being firmly against the hub. I discounted that possibility based on the fact that the wheel had been removed and replaced by 3 times by 2 different parties ; you and a mechanic.
              If the mechanic was so careless as to not notice and/or couldn’t be bothered to simply grab a wire brush and clean the center of both the hub and the wheel, then no wonder there’s no trusting him for repairs.

              If that turns out to be the entire issue, then the mechanic either didn’t actually investigate the issue or is a bum for telling you that the caliper is frozen.

              Assuming that isn’t the case or is merely a part of the trouble, now that you know how to remove the caliper, you can determine whether or not it’s sliding on the pins.
              The black rubber pieces are dust boots. They’re designed keep the water out and road grit off those caliper pins to ensure they will slide.
              Without those boots (or with torn boots) the pins would seize up rather quickly.

              The part that needs silicone brake lube is the long smooth cylindrical part.
              That’s what actually slides in and out of the caliper bracket when the brakes get applied.
              If you watch the ETCG video here, around 7:25 he instructs you on lubricating the pins and making sure the caliper clips are seated properly to prevent the pads from shifting during braking.
              If your prying bent the clip significantly, that may be at least part of the sound you’re hearing.

              Permatex makes the lube that ETCG uses in his videos. I use Sil-Glyde.
              They’re both silicone brake parts lubricant.

              #883270
              JoeJoe
              Participant

                omg. I think my month long saga is finally over.

                I removed the bolt from the back that the video you linked Bonnie mentioned that no other video did. Once I did that, the caliper didn’t exactly slide right off, but it did come off much much easier. I wire brushed the hell out of the sides of the brake pads, the shims, the hub. I finally got the caliper pins out and they weren’t rusty and they did appear to have some lubricant on them, but there was a lot of black gook as well. I cleaned both pins off and applied the silicone brake lubricant. I also put a slight teeny tiny bit of lube on the edges of the brake pads.
                Did not need a hammer to get the caliper back into place but there was that + sign piston that I had to fidget with a screwdriver clockwise to open up some space to get the caliper to slide in perfectly.

                I took it for a test drive around the parking lot of my condo complex. No noise period when I braked. It was very smooth too.

                I’ll cross my fingers this lasts, but I’m very happy right now in this moment that I did not pay a mechanic $300 for a new caliper ($4 for 2 small packets of brake lube, $35 for the ratchet set, $20 for the jack stand, $10 for wheel chocks = $70). If this is fixed, it will forever remain a mystery to me why rotating my tires triggered it.

                Thanks very much!

                THE CALIPER WAS RESTING ON A BOX! NOT DANGLING! (I know videos stressed to not have it dangle)

                #883273
                MikeMike
                Participant

                  Seems quite promising.
                  You can see just how much money can be saved by doing your own repairs.

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