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Hello guys,
New to the forums but not new to auto repair but wanted to throw this out there and see if any of ya’ll have had experience with these vehicles and these engines. Here is the vehicle info: it’s a 2005 Ford Expedition, 118000 miles, 2 wheel drive, 5.4L engine, auto trans. The problem we’re having with this truck is it came in with a P0011 Intake cam overadvanced bank #1, we flushed engine oil and changed it, twice, no help. code returned. The tech changed both VCT solenoids, also didn’t help. he then changed both bank 1 and bank 2 cam phasers, cleared codes and test drove vehicle about 30 miles, light came back but this time we had code P0022 intake cam over advanced bank #2. We changed the oil a 3rd time putting 5W20 and a Motorcraft filter and then checked oil pressure again. Our readings were 26 psi hot idle and 90 psi hot @ 2000 rpm. I forgot to mention this vehicles engine looked like it had been recently rebuilt from all outward appearances. The only specs I found for oil pressure were in Alldata which said 75 psi @ 2000 rpm hot.. I think that’s about it if I forgot to mention anything I can’t think of it right now. Just wanted to see if anyone has had this problem with these engines or might have some ideas. Thanks in advance.
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I’m wondering if it might be simpler than that. If the engine looked like it was reciently rebuilt perhaps it’s out of time. Have you checked the mechanical timing of the engine?
1. To start diagnosis, run engine at hot idle, when the engine is running poorly backprobe a ground wire into the variable camshaft solenoids (located at the top of each valve cover) at the following wires, one at a time. Only tap the ground to the wire briefly.
a. Passenger side, Violet and Light Blue wire.
b. Driver’s side, Dark Green and Orange wire.
2. If tapping a ground to either solenoid resolves the concern, the solenoid was stuck open. Either because of debris stuck in the solenoid, or because the solenoid itself was stuck.
3. If the concern is still present, unplug both solenoid connectors, if the engine now runs smoothly, suspect circuit faults between the solenoids and the PCM. Note, these solenoids should only be actuated off idle similar to a EGR valve.
4. If the concern is still present with the solenoids unplugged, install a lab scope with at least two channels on the cam shaft position sensors (located on the timing cover, one on each side). Install the positive leads at the following wires, install the negative lead to ground.
a. Driver’s side, Dark Green wire.
b. Passenger side, Orange wire.
5. Now start the engine, the wave forms should be in exact sync with each other, if one wave form is even slightly out of sync with the other, either the chain has jumped, the sensor is faulty, or there is a concern with the phaser assembly. A code P0012 suggests a problem on the driver’s side bank, P0022 suggests the problem is on the passenger side bank.
6. To rule out a sensor problem, simply swap the sensors bank to bank, if the concern follows the sensor, replace the affected sensor.
7. If the sensor is OK, you will now have to begin determining if this is a phaser concern or a timing chain problem.
8. A phaser that is over-retarded at idle can either be hydraulic, or mechanical failure. First, swap the solenoids bank to bank, if the concern follows the solenoid, then replace the affected solenoid.
9. If the fault is still present on the same bank, then the timing cover should be removed at this point for removal and inspection of the variable cam timing components.
10. First remove the phaser and inspect for broken trigger, bent trigger, damaged return spring. Replace as necessary. While phaser is removed, inspect the phaser bolt orifice for blockage, clean and replace as necessary.
11. Next remove the solenoid valve body, inspect all orifices for blockage, clean and replace as necessary.
12. If all orifices are OK, reassemble, verify proper chain timing. Restart the engine, if the concern is still present, suspect plugged orifices as discussed in step 2.
I don’t see any thing wrong with the pressure specs, If the engine oil was dirty and thick, replacement of the variable camshaft timing parts may not correct the concern. Oil passage restriction is one of the top causes of incorrect variable camshaft timing operation.
Thanks for the replies. As for the mechanical timing. When the cam phasers were installed he checked his mechanical timing because the timing cover was removed, but will double-check. The vehicle isn’t missing or running bad just keep getting the codes. Will run through the steps provided by Jacob and see what we come up with.
These things are crazy stupid about the passages getting clogged up even though you may have changed the oil several times I still think there is a blockage somewhere.
Confused why it started with one bank and spread to the other? Need to know if it runs rough at idle? You can also do an engine oil flush service but usually if a blockage has happen it will manually have to be cleaned with an orifice brush.Change the oil religiously every 2800 miles and use a good 5 w 20 oil
We flushed the engine oil once already. Didn’t get to try any of the steps you suggested today was too busy with other cars but should be able to get to it tomorrow. Which passages are you referring to that become clogged? and have to clean with a brush. I was wondering too, why it jumped from one bank to the other after changing the phasers. Doesn’t run bad, I test drove it after the cam phasers were changed. It took awhile for the check engine light to come on but fortunately it did before we released it. Anyway I’ll keep you posted. Thanks
Is the p0011 gone? If so then it is likely that you repaired that bank and now the other side phaser got damaged when being installed (trigger or return spring broke or bent) or the bolt that holds the phaser has the holes clogged?
There are several chambers inside the cam and when the VCT solenoid opens one direction or the other the flow of oil in those chambers either advance or retard the camshaft timing based on the duty cycle the pcm has requested. (in a nutshell)
Note: Ford uses camshaft 2 as the primary cam/crank sync for the pcm to make adjustments upon. If you have a labscope you can overlap them to make a diagnostic decision about chain timing.Hey guys, sorry it’s been so long since updating this post. Had some family things that came up and delayed me getting back to this vehicle. Anyway, to let you know what’s been done so far in addition to the other items. The timing chain, tensioner and guides were changed since I last posted. After that the truck kept getting a cam sensor code. You could drive it about 30 or so miles and same as before it do fine and then suddenly would start to run rough, usually when you were slowing down for a stop sign or traffic light. We replaced the cam sensor. We found a loose connection on #5 ignition coil, repaired it and have driven it about 80 miles so far with no incident. We also found some damaged wiring going to the crank sensor and oil sensor, I’m assuming left over from the original time when the engine was removed and replaced. So needless to say it’s been a real nightmare but hopefully this beast will be on it’s merry way. Thanks for all the help.
Just want to update this post. Man, talk about the tail chasing the dog. After repairing the wiring, getting the #5 cyl misfire fixed, we’d drive it 30 or so miles and STILL get the code P0022. so the only thing left to do was recheck everything. To make a long story short we found bank two VCT solenoid bad. The NEW solenoid we had replaced in the beginning of our process. Just goes back to the old saying, “Everything that glitters isn’t gold.” Lol or translated new doesn’t mean good, take nothing for granted. Special thanks to Jacob your steps helped with troubleshooting this one and thanks to all who replied. We’ve drove it about 100 miles since replacing the solenoid so I believe it’s a done deal. Take care guys.
Awesome. I was wondering the outcome of this one.
What steps did you make in diagnosing a faulty new VCT solenoid?
Quoted From Lonestartech:
Just want to update this post. Man, talk about the tail chasing the dog. After repairing the wiring, getting the #5 cyl misfire fixed, we’d drive it 30 or so miles and STILL get the code P0022. so the only thing left to do was recheck everything. To make a long story short we found bank two VCT solenoid bad. The NEW solenoid we had replaced in the beginning of our process. Just goes back to the old saying, “Everything that glitters isn’t gold.” Lol or translated new doesn’t mean good, take nothing for granted. Special thanks to Jacob your steps helped with troubleshooting this one and thanks to all who replied. We’ve drove it about 100 miles since replacing the solenoid so I believe it’s a done deal. Take care guys.
It doesn’t matter if the part is new, a certain brand or dealer part; they can be bad right out of the box. I’ve seen it more times than many but it is hard to tell the dealer boys their OEM part is bad and them buy that excuse. Their ego’s and god like mentality wont allow it and they tend to lash back an excuse of you didn’t know what you were doing because your just an independent.
Glad you got it fixed!
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