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Hi,
I have drive train shutter in OD at highway speeds. I watched the video that outlines the part in the converter that is not working correctly.
My tranny works flawlessly shifting and going into all gears. No check engine light. Truck moves from lights just fine.
My question is:
-> I assume the TCC requires the fluid to be in tip top shape to HOLD the 1:1 ratio?
-> How many times has anyone just changed the fluid and the shutter was fixed?
-> I’ve heard dr. shudder fix (red tube) is good to try to see if it helps?
a) if it does then does that prove it’s a fluid issue and a change should be done?Now from the angle that the inside of tranny has something to do with the tcc clutch not holding:
This kit seems to fix up the tranny and even address this issue?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/4L60E-4L65E-1996-2006-1870-P1870-CODE-BUSTER-UPDATE-KIT-/350397097868?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item51954b678c
pressure?I’m just looking for some people’s experience with this one issue. Every shop says well that’s the torque converter, so since labor is huge on that truck, you may as well rebuild tranny.
any thoughts on this?
It’s a 4l60e tranny. One flush done at 56K.(not full flush)
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Your torque converter is toast. Don’t worry about flushing it and hope if fixes the problem, because it won’t. Luckily, you have an easy fix, and a somewhat more labor intensive fix. Here are your options:
- Disable the TCC so it will never lock up. This will eliminate your driveability problem; however, it will cost you about 10% loss in fuel economy.
- Drop the transmission and replace the torque converter. Get one from your local junk yard to save mad amounts of cash. There is nothing tricky about this repair, it’s just a matter of turning some wrenches… but it is a heavy transmission and would probably require help. Some of the bolts on the bell housing are hard to get to.
Hi
Thanks for detailed response!
Is there any other ways of determining if torque converter is failing? Slippage values, any other tests?
This thread here shows a person who installed the ebay kit and it solved it so maybe he just got lucky.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2205970
If you only have time to read a short clip of the above post a commenter wrote this inside it:
Yep, there is a TSB for code P1870. It’s due to wear in the valve body bore around the TCC PWM valve. In stock form, the steel spool valve rides in the Aluminum bore in the valve body. After a few years of cycling, the bore wears (obviously, being the softer of the two metals). This contributes to less than full apply pressure being commanded of the actual TCC valve, and subsequent tq. convert clutch shudder, falling out of lockup, etc. and the accompanying tripping of the MIL for P1870. Been there done that. A quick fix for this is to lock the PWM valve into full pressure position (via inserting a spring in the bore), and getting on/off TCC engagement as in the pre-electronic 4L60E (the 700R4s used an on/off strategy until 93 when they became the 4L60E). Sonnax recommends against this practice, stating that the TC clutch assy. is not designed to take full non-PWM TCC apply pressure at all times under all conditions. Admittedly, this elimination of the PWM valve stroke is a common mod in shift kits so as to get a firmer apply and less TCC heat. I myself have this in my truck, but I have begun to wonder if Sonnax’s warning about this is not somehow relevant to my repeatedly cracking flex plates. So, I’m personally questioning the advisability of locking out the PWM valve to full apply pressure on a daily driver. But I digress….
GM’s reman transmissions address the PWM valve bore wear by reaming the bore and installing a larger valve. Sonnax has a much better solution. They have you ream the bore and install a steel sleeve along with a new hard-anodized valve. I have the Sonnax setup in mine since my problems with P1870 popped up years ago.
At the end of the day the “grind” noise may be what CLEARLY sets it aside and makes it screwed, where as these people mentioned above only had a shutter.
Any thoughts?
Any other tests ?
Transmission diagnosis normally involves checking the different pressures in the transmission to see if they’re in spec. This is not something a DIY can often do. Experience comes into play here as well. If the transmission shop is advocating a rebuild, they probably have some past experience that’s also coming into play here. Also, the benefits to a rebuild are that you should have some sort of warranty when you’re done. This means that the money you spend now should equate to piece of mind for some time.
Personally I don’t recommending modifying anything in the transmission as you suggest. Especially if you’re breaking parts. Modern vehicles were designed to work a certain way. Move outside of this parameters and you may find that you break parts and cause other issues as a result.
More information on transmission issues and how torque converters work can be found here.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-transmission-problems
Good luck and keep us posted.
Eric,
Thanks for reply. Well the shop I choose rebuild price was reasonable and my neighbor used them just recently for full rebuild. They install a replacement converter that has come from a converter company that obviously rebuilds or reconditions them. So not a new one. I asked about upgrades and he said they install whatever was recommended for that transmission. They didn’t take it for a test drive because my issue they said was either torque converter or lock up clutch circuit. Something to that effect. So he said use the money you would of spent on guessing with a flush and troubleshooting it to just rebuild it.
Of course the standard pull the dipstick and smell it occurred. The truck was kinda worse at all speeds now with a shaking on the way there. I’m sure it’s just a converter but based on the labor for new converter, the fact others told me “while it is out rebuild it” I felt for the extra $700 or so to just get it done. It’s just bad luck a converter went.
Would love to be there when they do this work all day but doubt they’d let that happen.
Guess we’ll see!
That sounds like a plan. You’re right, it doesn’t make sense to have the transmission out to just replace the converter. It’s a great opportunity to freshen up the transmission as well. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Just an update, they said there appeared to be water in the transmission. Recently I had taken a high pressure wash to under my truck several days prior to clean everything up. I’ve read there is a vent tube(rubber) about one inches facing up that allow the transmission to vent and equal to atmospheric pressure? Perhaps water went down in there? Or maybe dip stick wasn’t pressed all the way down and water got in. Lastly it could of been radiator section of transmission cooler that leaked over into it. I don’t know level of water found – the shop installed a separate tranny cooler in front of rad and called it a day.
The transmission works flawlessly now, no shutter, at idle it is smoother too. Out of all internet searches regarding shutter not once did anyone mention a grinding noise before or after lockup. I chalk that up to be the tcc cluth plate having little to new fluid in there or some mechanical problem.
I’ll never know if the flush would of done it or not but at least with all the diving I have coming up on the highway I will know if it will die sooner than later.
thanks everyone.
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