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I have a 2004 Chrysler Pacifica AWD that occasionally will refuse to start. to WIn the past a jump start after a few minutes of jumper charging the system will start the car.
Symptom: Ignition turned to start causes a click noise under the hood. The click is a single click and if the key is kept in start the dash lights will soon go out. At this point, unless a new battery is bad, I have a new Generator and new battery in the car.
What I have done.
1. Tested the battery for voltage and found 12.9 volts. This should be fine but I decided to take my 3 year old battery Wallmart and exchange it for a new battery at no cost.
2. Installed new battery after brushing post and connectors to a new shiny surface and made certain the connections were securely fastened to the new battery.
3 Generator was also replaced due to bad internal bearing noise with in the past month.Car is still having the same problem.
I have been looking around the internet to find information already shared. Many seem to indicate a ground wire is getting broken or partially disconnected between the engine and transmission after a broken engine mount (I had a broken engine mount about the time this began). I am not sure which wire this is but I assume it is the G102 wire on the wire harness (G101 is at the battery & G102 looks like it is on the low left side of the tranny.).
The last time the car would not start I used a jumper cable and connected the negative battery post to the engine block, car would not start. Next I connected the negative battery post to the Transmission housing, CAR STARTS IMMEDIATELY.
The only way to insure proper ground in all parts of the vehicle would be to replace the WIRE HARNESS (too costly for this car), instead I am thinking running a battery cable 4GA from negative battery to a mounting bracket on the transmission, then I should have plenty of ground to tranny and engine.
Does this make since to the experts here that grounding with another 4GA wire from battery negative to transmission housing would solve this intermittent starting issue? I have not been able to look at the G102 ground wire but extra ground can not hurt. Also would a bad ground between engine and tranny also create an intermittent problem with hard up and down shifting between 20 and 30 MPH when gradually slowing or increasing speed? (Many vehicle processor signals travel on the Ground circuit so I have read.) If the G102 is broken or partially broken the resulting ground may be insufficient for the vehicle demand. Is G102 the primary engine and transmission ground source for this engine and transmission (I assume it is)?
ERIC has one of these cars I think. Maybe he will chime in on this too ??
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[quote=”n9zn-extra” post=187002]instead I am thinking running a battery cable 4GA from negative battery to a mounting bracket on the transmission, then I should have plenty of ground to tranny and engine.[/quote]
My brother has an 05 Pacifica and had this symptom. I replaced the battery ground cable with a #4 cable and that solved his problem. For around $10 it can’t hurt, and the factory cable is undersized IMHO. Try it and see. I’d like to hear back if this solved yours as well.My brother has an 05 Pacifica and had this symptom. I replaced the battery ground cable with a #4 cable and that solved his problem. For around $10 it can’t hurt, and the factory cable is undersized IMHO. Try it and see. I’d like to hear back if this solved yours as well.
Thank you CAP269!
I can assure you I will get back to you. What I am not certain of, since this has been an intermittent problem at times taking a few weeks before another failure, is that the car starting is any kind of good indicator of the fix taking care of the intermittent failure. After a few months without a recurrence I would feel satisfied the extra ground fixed this problem.
None the less I will keep you informed and I hope I remember to come back in a few months with a report as well. I set a reminder in Outlook to come back after about 3 months, if that works right I will remember to give you a real update after some time has passed. 🙂
Any thoughts on the intermittent hard up and down shift at low speeds with mild acceleration, do you think it may be related to poor engine / tranny ground? Was G102 (in diagram above) the wire your brother had trouble with or did you have a chance to look at the wires?
The cable I replaced was the main ground assembly (terminal and cable) that originated at the battery post, I do not know what its number is. He had several issues at the time, I cannot remember if he also had the shifting symptom, but he was having several issues. I remember one was a stalling issue, and all of them were simultaneously resolved when I replaced the ground cable. This was about 5 years ago, and none of those symptoms returned after the cable was changed.
You have given me some REAL HOPE that this will take care of two things both of which happened around the time we had a motor mount replaced. Maybe 3 things.
With a little luck it will resolve the MIL light that comes on randomly re: small vacuum leak too. I had the car smoke tested and nothing was found. If something was visible I am pretty sure a class of 15 people taking an SAE repair course would have had at least one of them notice the smoke venting.
Those 3 things Intermittent starting, intermittent hard shift and intermittent small vacuum leak MIL light are the only known things wrong with the vehicle.
In the diagram above G101 (not noted) is the Negative battery connection. G102 appears to be the primary engine and transmission ground location opposite end of the primary engine ground wire traveling through the wire harness from location G101.
If I am right about this wire, and it is beginning to fail, getting it fixed now will also resolve a number of other future yet pending issues. As you suggested with your brothers vehicle.
Can’t thank you enough CAP269 for letting me know what you found on your brother car. 🙂
For the comparatively low cost of a #4 cable, it wouldn’t hurt to just replace them both. Make sure that all connection points are clean and shiny. One thing I’ve noticed over the years in dealing with Chrysler products is that they seem to all have electrical system issues. Improving the electrical grounds never hurts anything.
[quote=”cap269″ post=187018]For the comparatively low cost of a #4 cable, it wouldn’t hurt to just replace them both. Make sure that all connection points are clean and shiny. One thing I’ve noticed over the years in dealing with Chrysler products is that they seem to all have electrical system issues. Improving the electrical grounds never hurts anything.[/quote]
I wish I would have thought to ask the mechanic to clean up the area of cable attachment prior to bolting everything down. As far as I know the cable was simply bolted in place to the same transmission mounting bolt I had been successfully connecting a jumper cable from battery negative establishing additional grounding allowing the car to start. My assumption is the mounting bolt is well suited to electrical conductivity because the jumper grounding was successful.
After 2 additional instances of our car not starting followed by the car immediately starting after using a jumper cable to ground battery negative to a transmission mounting bolt I am now more convinced than ever this is the fix for our vehicle. It is so difficult with an intermittent electrical problem to feel anything is the answer certain until months pass without another failure. That being said I am glad I waited A few days to locate a reasonably priced mechanic to install the new ground cable. The cable was installed on Monday May 1st, 2017 by a local mechanic for $25.00, a price I considered fair. I could have done this myself except I felt my tools were not strong enough to break loose the transmission bolt and I had some uncertainty the transmission would not shift slightly out of alignment with the bolt if I tried this hookup myself.
I have set a new appointment in my computers Outlook calendar which will alert me to come back and provide a follow up after a few months have passed. Time I believe necessary to prove with certainty the intermittent failure to start issue has been resolved by adding additional grounding. NOTE: I have not had a recurrence of the MIL light illuminating with the small vacuum leak codes again but only more time will give me confidence this helped the MIL light return to normal.
[quote=”cap269″ post=187003][quote=”n9zn-extra” post=187002]instead I am thinking running a battery cable 4GA from negative battery to a mounting bracket on the transmission, then I should have plenty of ground to tranny and engine.[/quote]
My brother has an 05 Pacifica and had this symptom. I replaced the battery ground cable with a #4 cable and that solved his problem. For around $10 it can’t hurt, and the factory cable is undersized IMHO. Try it and see. I’d like to hear back if this solved yours as well.[/quote]cap269.
The extra ground wire was installed on May,1st, 2017.
Unfortunately the addition of a #4 ground wire wire has not resolved our problem.Since adding to this topic after the new ground was put in place the vehicle also had a fan separate from the motor cooling the radiator. I have a separate thread on that issue.
Today my wife drove to a job close to the house without the car overheating. I had noticed a blown fuse for the radiator fans and removed it prior to his happening. I also swapped the fuse box relays for the radiator fan and the starter, these same two relays had been swapped prior to the fan breaking hoping it may be the source of the starting issue. Since the starter fuse box relay is back in it’s original location I wonder if it may turn out to have a problem. I will check the relay better one the car is towed back to our residence and I can put a meter on the relay.
Unless I hear from someone with new remedies for repairing the starting issue I plan ion taking the auto to Leary Technical School in Tampa for both issues we are having. They operate an SAE certified auto mechanics course for adults. This may be my best shot at getting things working properly since the instructor is an ASE Master Mechanic who double checks all the work done by his students. We have had very good results with them before and the best part is the labor is FREE, we only have to purchase requested parts.
I would highly recommend to anyone having an auto issue they can not solve to consider one of the local area technical schools teaching an ASE Certified Mechanics Course as a resource that could help them. Most classes of this type cut huge breaks on labor charges if they charge for labor to begin with.
I do still want more information since I prefer to solve the starting issue on my own, I enjoy working on things I can still accomplish at age 66. Thank you again cap269 for the information shared to date.
Monty (N9ZN-Extra)
So , the new ground wire did not solve the starting problem ?
I would , if necessary , run a supplemental ground cable from the battery to , the body , chassis , engine & transmission , & make sure the battery cable clamps & terminals were clean and shiny . Then apply grease to same to prevent corrosion .
But , I am an electrician so running supplemental grounds would be no bid deal . We have crimping tooling to crimp the ring connectors to cable & heat shrink for insulation purposes .
As far as the relays are concerned , a A/C relay for a Chevy is not very $$$ & it is used in other positions at the fuse box . I would buy a new one .
Get a book with a wiring diagram .
Do you live in the salt belt ? Corrosion is the enemy .
Does the starter gave a separate solenoid or is mounted on / part of the starter internals ? Is the starter solenoid getting 12VDC when the ignition is turned to start ?
I might even run a supplemental ground cable to the starter . Is the starter mounted directly to the engine or to the transmission / bell housing ?
God bless
WyrPS I am a little over a year younger than you & still tinker with the car , some . 🙂
[quote=”WyrTwister” post=187563]So , the new ground wire did not solve the starting problem ?
I would , if necessary , run a supplemental ground cable from the battery to , the body , chassis , engine & transmission , & make sure the battery cable clamps & terminals were clean and shiny . Then apply grease to same to prevent corrosion .
But , I am an electrician so running supplemental grounds would be no bid deal . We have crimping tooling to crimp the ring connectors to cable & heat shrink for insulation purposes .
As far as the relays are concerned , a A/C relay for a Chevy is not very $$$ & it is used in other positions at the fuse box . I would buy a new one .
Get a book with a wiring diagram .
Do you live in the salt belt ? Corrosion is the enemy .
Does the starter gave a separate solenoid or is mounted on / part of the starter internals ? Is the starter solenoid getting 12VDC when the ignition is turned to start ?
I might even run a supplemental ground cable to the starter . Is the starter mounted directly to the engine or to the transmission / bell housing ?
God bless
WyrPS I am a little over a year younger than you & still tinker with the car , some . :-)[/quote]
WHAT I DECIDED TO DO AND WHY.
A little time has passed and we have only had this problem come back one more time. The car started immediately after running a single cable from battery negative to ENGINE ground. Before it would only start running this cable to TRANSMISSION GROUND. This is meaningful I think.
I noticed the single click we had heard in the past was now a series of multiple clicks if the key was left in start position, indicating to me grounding had improved some.
Those things in mind I researched wire harness ground locations and found 2 or 3 behind the splash guard, drivers side, and intend to remove, clean and re-seat those connections in the future. I also noticed the factory crimp for the battery negative had some corrosion showing on the outside of the multi wire bundle. This I believe needs to be replaced.
After I find a suitable replacement connector (hoping to locate an exothermic one) I will put it on the car. Ohterwise I will need to get my soldering tools outside, remove the battery to a safe place and solder a new connector at wire harness to battery location. I may also re-do the other connectors behind the wheel splash guard. THIS SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Meanwhile, since this is only happening more rarely I am content with hooking up a single battery ground to engine JUMPER cable to start the car when it fails. At least I feel at this point I fully understand this problem and know how to make the FINAL REPAIR that will get this intermittent starting issue out of my hair.
BTW – Your suggestions were excellent. I do have factory maintenance service manuals with wiring diagrams.that I used to locate the ground points. I hate to run a bunch of extra ground wires and think re-terminating and cleaning present wiring will solve everything. I also have a degree in Electronics Engineering Technology, not an electrician but there is no doubt it sure helps. If I can not locate an exothermic battery connector for this car someone should invent one, I bet they could make a fair amount of bucks off such a cable connection, it is like soldering a connection with any soldering tools. Everything is self contained in the connector. (I AM IN LOVE WITH THE EASY WAY) LOL 👿
Are you talking about Cadweld or BURNDYWeld ?
We use them for Telco work , where specified . Always considered them to be a pain .
TYou are probably out of luck for automotive .
Best of luck .
God bless
Wyr[quote=”WyrTwister” post=188418]Are you talking about Cadweld or BURNDYWeld ?
[/quote]I would have to dig out the catalogs to tell you which exothermic we used for tower grounds, everything came in a self contained kit. I could not see using anything like we used for towers used for autos but something much smaller that would heat and bond without a torch. There are plenty of solder plugs and terminals with self contained flux and solder but a torch is still needed.
Two weeks ago the car started having the problem again. Second time we went to start the car with jumpers I noticed some blackish smoke residue on the wire just outside the crimped area to the battery terminal. Smokey residue made me think sparking within the crimped area under high amperage. We drove the car another week with the problem and each time we got the car to start by several tugs back and forth on the harness wire going into the battery terminal crimp. Car started every time after doing this.
I let myself be fooled because lights and other electrical was working when the car would not start. Without giving higher amperage proper consideration and after reading about problems after motor mounts breaking I got sidetracked into believing the problem was mainly due to broken ground points near the engine / transmission.
Now I have done what I mentioned earlier, planned on doing and failed to follow through, i installed a new battery terminal splice kit. Car started right up after putting it in.
I don;t know if we are in the salt belt or not. We live in Tampa, Fl and I would suspect there is a fair amount of salt residue all over the state considering proximity to the ocean. You mentioned our trouble may be caused by corrosion and I think you are right. If we had damaged ground points caused by broken motor mounts I am not certain but I know now the battery terminal HAD TO BE REPLACED.
I bet the car will never fail to start as it has been prior to putting the splice kit in place. Easy job took about 20 minutes to complete, took more time to gather and put away the tools and cleaners than make the repair.
Note: Don;t forget to use some OFF Mosquito repellent if working late in the evening where the critters thrive. I did and became the main course for a hardy meal.
THIS I EXPECT TO BE THE END OF THIS LINGERING INTERMITTENT STARTING PROBLEM.
Thanks top all who commented, your help is appreciated.
Monty
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