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2002 Chevrolet Malibu Sever Misfire

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  • #861303
    Andrew HeitmanAndrew Heitman
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      Good evening, everyone!

      To start off, I am new to posting to the forums here, but not new to ETCG and am excited to contribute to the community!

      This may be a long post, but I do not want to skip any details that seem important, so here I go!

      We have a 2002 Chevrolet Malibu with the well known Chevrolet 3100 V6 engine. For a few years now, it has had a slight misfire that we did not get to diagnosing due to financial reasons, it is the daily driver for my mom. Over the last few months though, the gas mileage has decreased dramatically, and currently it is a road hazard due to the misfire. There is no power, it bogs down, sputters, and it is unable to leave first gear or accelerate over 3,500-ish RPM, which is new over the course of it sitting the past week, I tried to take it out this morning. It was drivable for the most part before. Before It got this bad, you could at least make it accelerate very well at WOT if you needed the power, as if something kicked in at WOT. Once it began to overheat on her on the way home from work before last weekend, I decided it could no longer be driven and loaned her one of my cars. It otherwise starts perfectly, and idles pretty well with only a slight misfire, it runs okay not under load. Strangely, this problem is worse when ambient temperature outside is as hot as it has been.

      These engines have a pattern issue with the ignition coils, ignition control module, intake manifold gaskets and the fuel pressure regulator failing causing a misfire. I connected my ELM scan tool and the PCM had codes P0300 (general misfire) and P1189 (Engine oil pressure switch circuit). I am not sure what the EOP circuit is about, the oil lamp is not illuminated when engine is on, and illuminates with key on-engine off. This car has no oil PSI sensor, just a switch. It also momentarily threw and EGR code being stuck open, but the pintle is not stuck and it does activate. I monitored the misfire counter and saw that cylinders 2 and 4 misfire the most. 3 and 5 misfire the least. This shows that it is not an ignition coil or ignition control module issue, however I have performed a spark test on each of the wires and spark showed great. Here’s info for the O2 sensors. Long term fuel trim bank 1 is -15.6% and long term on bank 2 is -100%. Short term bank one hovers around -1% through -20%. Short term bank 2 fluctuates like crazy between +50% and -99% once every few seconds. I am pretty sure this is why the car starts to overheat, it running VERY lean. I was unable to find any external vacuum leaks, and everything is tight to prevent pirate air with the MAF sensor. I tested the fuel pressure regulator with a handheld vacuum pump and it showed no broken diaphragm leaking fuel, and it held vacuum from the pump.

      I rented a fuel pressure gauge today. Fuel pressure is between 40 and 50 PSI at idle, which according to the Chevrolet diagnostic manual it is normal pressure. I confirmed fuel pressure regulator functioned (pressure jumped to about 60PSI when vacuum was removed). I left the gauge connected and drove around the residence, and while the engine misfired the fuel pressure did not show any change, even when trying to accelerate at wide open. I am not sure if this rules out fuel volume issues, the gauge did not have a function for this. With engine off and the gauge still connected to the fuel rail for over 10 minutes, the pressure did not show any evidence of a fuel leak or stuck injectors. The fuel pump has been replaced in the past due to an unrelated incident in 2008. A stray piece of metal left on the road by some a**wipe was kicked up by the front tire and rammed into the fuel tank. destroying both the tank and pump and dumping 15 gallons of gasoline everywhere. The pump is not OEM though and may be some cheap POS some family member put in.

      The intake gaskets were replaced by a professional mechanic in 2011 due to coolant leakage in the oil, coolant pooling on the driveway and overheating. This misfire issue did not occur before the replacement and there were no other noticeable drive-ability issues. In the last five years, the car has also received new spark plugs and wires for the 100,000 mile mark, fuel filter (done last summer by me for maintenance reasons) new cam sensor to resolve a crank/no start condition, alternator, MAF sensor, harmonic balancer, power steering pump pulley, water pump and a pressurized coolant reservoir and cap. To attempt to correct the situation, I have cleaned the EGR and its passages, cleaned the throttle body, checked all plugs/wires/grounds, and of course checked fluids.

      Thank you for taking time to read about my problem! I would love to avoid paying for a tow as well as diagnostics and labor on top of the parts to repair. I am open to any and all ideas as I am currently out of my own, and this does not seem to be following along the “common fixes” for this car. Attached will be screen shots of my scan tool on my phone of the PID’s as well as CEL codes. The last image was taken after it began to overheat, with coolant temp at 223F and long term bank two pegged out at -100%.

    Viewing 5 replies - 16 through 20 (of 20 total)
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    • #861369
      Andrew HeitmanAndrew Heitman
      Participant

        You’re correct, I did do this earlier today and experienced no improvement. Just a LOT of noise of course. If it were an exhaust restriction, I would figure it to be one so bad that leaving the sensor out could not relieve the back-pressure. But with that much restriction, I don’t see that the engine would even run. It does not seem backed up, or it would not be able to accelerate under wide open throttle when cold.

        Ambient temp was a lot cooler outside today than it has been the past few weeks. When I drove it around this morning to warm it up for the O2 info, I was able to punch the pedal to the floor (wide open throttle). It hesitated for a few seconds, chugged, then it just came to life and took off without any issue. Engine sounded great. It was as if something “kicked in”. When ambient temp rose this afternoon, I would say above 80°, the condition got worse and it would hardly accelerate anymore. It puzzles me.

        Would unhooking both sensors do anything useful? Downstream for the cat, if the computer didn’t see that would it default more fuel trims as well? Or just set a failed cat/O2 code?

        Thank you for your assistance. I’m in no rush for ideas, the car isn’t going anywhere! 🙂

        #861399
        Andrew HeitmanAndrew Heitman
        Participant

          Good news! I have determined the lack of power. You guys were right, the exhaust is clogged. But it is so clogged that removing just the upstream O2 sensor did not work, so I decided to remove the EGR tube (larger bung). Besides sounding like an old truck with a rusted exhaust manifold, the car has power again! Bad news, it needs new cats and it is definitely still running rich. I installed the upstream O2 (seems to breathe okay with only the EGR undone) and it showing a rapid fluctuation between .100 and .900 volts. The long term is pegged out a -99% still. The overheat is gone and the vehicle is no longer a road hazard but the exhaust fumes are so rich it is like smelling right out of a gas can. So it will just burn the new ones up. Any recommendations for good replacement converters/ideas for rich condition?

          #861429
          George GallenGeorge Gallen
          Participant

            Our old Malibu – 1999 same engine. When it was misfiring like crazy – it was one of the spark plug wires arcing to ground.

            Get somewhere really dark, and run the engine.

            I was able to see the sparking – also heard the “popping”.

            Replaced that one spark plug wire and it was good after that.

            #861434
            Andrew HeitmanAndrew Heitman
            Participant

              [quote=”gginnj” post=168832]Our old Malibu – 1999 same engine. When it was misfiring like crazy – it was one of the spark plug wires arcing to ground.

              Get somewhere really dark, and run the engine.

              I was able to see the sparking – also heard the “popping”.

              Replaced that one spark plug wire and it was good after that.[/quote]

              Thank you for the suggestion! Incidentally, I actually replaced the spark pkugs and wires last night before discovering the plugged exhaust. Last time they were done 50,000 miles ago, we went cheap and got the autolite plugs and wires, I pulled them out of curiosity and while they had good wear, they were crappy. They broke when removing them, and they were not super tight in the cylinder head. The wires were also out of resistance spec for Chevy. So I got replacement wires and plugs. All new OEM AC Delco, the spark seems stronger. However the engine is still running super rich with the misfire.

              On an odd note, I was at the pick and pull yesterday for another project, there were about 11 Chevrolet Malibu’s in there with the 3100 v6 that weren’t wrecked in any means. They were marked with “does not run”. I pulled the spark plus on most of them and they were either super black and fouled with carbon, or fuel soaked. Indicating they were running rich and the owner gave up on them. Seems to be a common issue.

              #866532
              Andrew HeitmanAndrew Heitman
              Participant

                Good afternoon, everyone!

                I thought I would post a quick update. The issue has mostly been solved. We limped it to a family trusted shop and to no surprise, they recommended replacement of the converter. Stated that it was so back-plugged that it was causing the engine to run rich. I am not entirely sure how this would be possible (maybe not enough exhaust flow for the 02 sensors?) but we replaced it because it was un-drive-able, and trusted in the accuracy of their diagnosis.

                Got the car back last week and it has A LOT more power, more than it has had in years. But there is still a slight misfire when accelerating, which is how this issue started. Took it back to the shop today for another diagnosis and they said that the spark plugs we put in from AC Delco are the wrong type and claim this is causing the misfire. The under-hood sticker calls for AC Delco platinum, the ones in there are iridium. Plugs are gapped correctly according to the under-hood sticker. The iridium plugs were purchased new from autozone based on their parts system a month ago, but it was misfiring before using their cheapest line of plugs as well.

                Could this be causing the misfire, having iridium plugs instead of the called-for platinum? Or is this shop calling BS? I don’t want to burn up a new converter. And the gas mileage is still crappy (about 8MPG with no hard accelerations), so I know it’s not running as well as it could.

              Viewing 5 replies - 16 through 20 (of 20 total)
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