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Hello there ETCG Forum,
In need of as much help as you all are willing to offer:
My step-dad owns a 2000 Honda Passport which recently had a dead battery. When he last jumped the battery (during which he connected positive-to-positive and negative-to-negative, not negative to a ground), all hell broke loose on this truck. According to his account: with the key in and turned ACC, the windshield wipers turned on even though they were “turned off,” The Cruise Control lit on the dash, and the headlights were working fine. Figuring he had power to start, he attempted to start the truck, but the engine would not turn over (or even flinch).
At this point, unhooked the jumpers, comes into the house to tell me the truck still wont start, wipers come on, etc etc (basically everything explained above). Go to check on it myself, sit inside the truck and smell the acrid what can be no other than fried electrics. (I’m a computer guy myself, and anybody who has worked with enough electronics will recognize the smell)
In an attempt to save you from a large wall of text, here’s the long story short:
- Truck will not even flinch with the key in the ignition, no lights, no sounds, just silence
- 100 amp fuse under the hood labeled “MAIN” blew, was replaced, still nothing.
- All fuses in the cabin fuse box are fine, as well as ones under the hood.
- Attempted to jump truck again (properly this time) after replacing the 100 amp blown fuse and still nothing.
This is about where my knowledge ends and I’m hoping somebody’s begins. I did what i could looking under the dash for any burnt up wires, but couldn’t find anything other than 1/4 roll’s worth of electrical tape (as I had not removed the dash in any way). :blush:
Any and all help is appreciated as a family of 3 functioning off of 1 car is difficult at best. If you need any more information from me, feel free to ask.
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Any and all help is appreciated as a family of 3 functioning off of 1 car is difficult at best
First Possibility:
i’ve definately seen this happen when a battery was installed backwards, but i suspect this can also happen if the jumper cables were hooked up backwards. the reversed polarity backfed all the electrical components thus actuating all on their own. the small ground wires could not handle the high amperage, started to burn, and may have produced a ‘burnt electronics’ smell.
i’ve seen this happen many times, but have never specifically worked on a vehicle that has sustained this type of damage… but i have often thought of how i would go about handling such a mess. in my opinion, this is how i would handle the damage:
1. verify that the battery is hooked up correctly
2. load test the battery and make sure it is working correctly
3. test all fuses using a fuse tester of some sort.
4. try to establish communication with the PCM. If communication is established, pull codes then clear all codes. (If no communication, begin network bus diagnostics)
5. start the vehicle. (if no start, begin no-start diagnostics)
6. test alternator output
7. Damage Control: identify any systems that remain inoperative. Note any dash lights. Find out what stuff no longer works
8. Using a power/ground distribution schematic for the vehicle, attempt to find any commonalities between failed circuits. (shared points between failed circuits should be identified as a possible point of failure i.e. common grounds)
9. Test failed circuits for voltage drop/high resistance in efforts to isolate damaged wiring/connections.
10. Lastly, replace failed components.If anyone has a better way to go about this please let me know. I haven’t found anything that specifically addresses this problematic occurance, but i believe the aforementioned strategy does offer a comprehensive and logical approach to handle this type of electrical disaster.
Q: Has anyone ever actually repaired a vehicle that was subjected to reverse polarity? How did you handle this repair…?
Second Possibility:
I’ve had a lot of weird things happen just with having low battery power. For example, I’ve had the washer fuid sprayer and wipers actuate when turned to ACC because the battery was very low (probably lower than 9.6 volts) accompanied by rapid clicking of many relays from the power distribution center (fuse box.) If you suspect this is what you are experiencing, simply charge the battery and begin charging system diagnostics:
When he last jumped the battery (during which he connected positive-to-positive and negative-to-negative, not negative to a ground)
This essentially has no affect on the series circuit in which your car is wired. Whether the negative cable was hooked to the frame, engine, body, or directly to the (-)battery terminal, the ground path circuit remains unchanged; all ground circuit flow will eventually lead back to the negative battery terminal.
The reason they teach to make the last jumper cable connection to the dead car’s chasis ground is to reduce the possibility of a battery explosion. A dead battery contains mostly water and through the process of electrolysis, the water will seperate into oxygen and hydrogen gas. Making the final connection to the battery and not the chasis ground will allow an opportunity for an electrical arc to ignite the hydrogen gas. In the old days with servicable batteries, it was possible to experience a battery explosion w/ this scenario; however, with today’s non-servicable batteries it is far less common:
Third Possibility:
You might just have a bad battery… No amount of jumping starting or charging will help you in this case:
As stated in the video, a low battery can produce the acrid smell in which you refer to. Take it down to autozone and have them test it. Having worked at autozone, i’ll be the first to tell you that they will push selling you a battery even if yours passes the test. Therefore, have them check the battery in front of you. IF the battery needs to be “Charge & Tested” they will want you to leave the battery with them until it’s charged and tested OR they will just straight up tell you that a battery that needs to be ‘charge and tested’ is bad. This is where they will get you; i’ve seen many good batteries that have passed the test be marked as “BAD.” I have went behind many managers and employees and marked these batteries good. (If they can get your good battery, they can sell your battery as “USED” for $45.) So… after they come back and say your battery is bad, make them test it again in front of you w/ the portable tester. Now, at this point you are ready to throw down $100 for a duralast battery w/ 2 year free replacement and 7 year prorated warranty.
Walmart Batteries: Never had experience with them. They are cheaper. They are probably not under warranty. I would assume you get what you pay for.
Thank you Wrench Turner. Although Much of this is things outside of my knowledge of doing (and/or time and tool limited for doing), it most definitely give me a starting place for at least trying to figure out what the problem is, or at least the point of origin. Unfortunately due to financial circumstances (and the fact that the passport is so bad off that it is literally just worth value of the metal it is made from, it just isn’t all that worth taking it to a shop to pay for diagnosis and the man hours and parts; it is just not worth the money, especially after 2 engine swaps, an ongoing suspension issue from rust/age, and 13 years of abuse from a man that has a very heavy foot and probably has slammed it around more than a teenage girl’s bedroom door.
Fingers crossed that it is just a completely dead battery and not something bigger. Again, I appreciate the time you took to write all that up, and I will give an update if I can figure out what the problem is.
My money would be on wrench turners suggestion of reversed polarity. The fact that the wipers were operating while not turned on suggests this and its probable that there are some burned wires in there somewhere. I’d start by inspecting all the electrics under the dash for any damage to the wiring, the smell should help to guide you too and if you are lucky then you might get away with replacing a small section of wire.
I once had a similar problem with a little German corsa that I bought for €100 from someone who said the engine was dead and it turned out he did exactly the above, installed the battery backwards. 🙂What you describe does sound like the jumper cables were not hooked up correctly. The 100a fuse should have protected the circuit. I’m in the camp of checking the battery first. Given that it wasn’t hooked up incorrectly it could have damaged the battery. It’s an easy enough place to start. Please keep us posted on what you find.
Hey again forum,
It’s taken a while to actually get time to work this truck, limited by a number of things. figured I would give an update on this money pit of a truck, mostly because the problem is fixed but now there is a new problem.
Originally, the car had gone unused for a few weeks and the battery had gone dead beyond a point of being jumpable. (could get truck jumped but would not survive on its own power for more than a minute or two, which I’m sure wasn’t helped by the midwest winter (10F and below)) Anywho, battery was replaced, and fuse was replaced, and the truck will start and stay started (at least more so than previously)
However, after getting it started, the dash cluster would not flinch. Lights on the cluster are A-Okay, but the needles will not move. Come to find that the “Meter” fuse is blown… (Instrument panel fuse for speedo, tach, and what have you)So, replace the fuse, give it another go, fuse blows again.
By this point I have ripped apart most of the dash and pulled off the instrument panel to check for any blown circuitry, of which I found none. Gone to the point of trying to find a place where the wires may have shorted and burned a bit, but considering how tightly packed dashboard wiring is, it is proving to be difficult at best. Local shops want somewhere in the realm of 75-80 bucks an hour in labor just to “attempt” to find this problem just as I am. Again with lacking automotive skill set, ripping out the entire dash is a bit daunting.
“The 100a fuse should have protected the circuit. I’m in the camp of checking the battery first.” -ETCG
I would think so as well, but it seems enough juice got somewhere inside and found a way to make a nice burn into some wiring. If i remember correctly, when diagnosing the no electrics condition, the “meter” fuse I mentioned above was fine and blew sometime between attempting to jump the truck on the old battery and starting it with the new one. No new smells, just that blown fuse.
I’ll keep updated with anything new when I can.
EDIT: Quick note on the reverse polarity issue. It is possible the battery was hooked up wrong, but somewhat unlikely. The truck is my Step-dad’s and he was the one to jump it so especially coming from somebody who got the story of the first jumping secondhand and only witnessed the aftermath, it is hard to say for certain exactly what went down.
Is there any possibility of a voltage backlash if the negative were to be hooked up first, and the positive second?
Is there any possibility of a voltage backlash if the negative were to be hooked up first, and the positive second?
This will have no affect on the series circuit in which your car is wired. By using jumper cables, you establish a ‘series-parallel’ circuit which exhibits the same properties of any DC circuit; there is no power flow whatsoever until the circuit is completely closed. Any open anywhere (power or ground side) will prevent any electrical flow.
The most likely explanation of the problems you’re having is that somehow the the polarity was reversed at some point. You don’t blow a 100a fuse any other way from what I’ve seen. That said, the entire electrical system took a hit it sounds like. You may have to replace the cluster in the end. It’s usually circuit boards and control units that take a hit in a situation where polarity gets reversed. I suspect the circuit board in the cluster was damaged when the jumper cables were hooked up wrong.
FYI that truck is actually an Izusu Trooper. So you may find better information looking at the Izusu manual over the Honda manual. In fact the Honda manual was just a reprint of the Izusu manual.
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