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2000 Honda Accord 4cyl EX, problem started over a year ago and used to only happen when sitting for 10-15 min after hot, now does it almost always unless started back up immediately after shut off. Here is what’s happening. On initial start up engine will crank 10-15 times before it fires (not slow cranking batt is new) unless key is turned off then on again, then it will typically start normally. I have taken the main relay apart and it looked fine, even re soldered a few joints, same problem. I also can hear the fuel pump humming when the key is on. Not sure where to go from here with this problem. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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First of all, welcome to the forums!
Well there could be a few possibilities of why your having these hard starts. They could range from a leaking fuel injector, bad check valve in the fuel pump, leaking fuel pressure regulator or an issue with the ECT showing the incorrect temperature values.
I would loan out a fuel pressure testing gauge and check for KOEO fuel pressure and check those against factory specs. You can also do an injector leak down test too.
Quoted From BigC:
Hi onagood1bri,
Thanks for your post. Great suggestions by dreamer2355 (I always enjoy reading what dreamer2355 posts!). Another suggestion that EricTheCarGuy mentioned before is to cycle the key from “off” to “on” to back “off” several times before actually starting the vehicle. Allow the fuel pump to run its normal 2 secs before shutting off while the key is in the “on” position. Afterwards, see if the car starts up without extensive cranking.
If the above works, then you can “get by” for the time being. As dreamer2355 indicated though, information on the fuel pressure would help greatly with further identification of the root cause for the issue. Good luck and keep us posted.
Thanks for the compliments BigC, it means alot to me. Im just trying to help out as many people as possible by suggesting some idea’s of where to start diagnosing.
There is also other very knowledgeable posters on this forum and im very proud to be apart of this group.
what about the key fob?…i haved the same car,,,and my car would not start sometimes and the green key indicator on cluster came on…replaced and starts everytime..had this problem for over a year…crank and crank…..but this fixed the problem…
Hi onagood1bri,
Thanks for your post. Great suggestions by dreamer2355 (I always enjoy reading what dreamer2355 posts!). Another suggestion that EricTheCarGuy mentioned before is to cycle the key from “off” to “on” to back “off” several times before actually starting the vehicle. Allow the fuel pump to run its normal 2 secs before shutting off while the key is in the “on” position. Afterwards, see if the car starts up without extensive cranking.
If the above works, then you can “get by” for the time being. As dreamer2355 indicated though, information on the fuel pressure would help greatly with further identification of the root cause for the issue. Good luck and keep us posted.
Yeah, The first thing i would check is fuel pressure.
It could be an number of things at this point but, a fuel pressure reading would help out a lot.Quoted From dreamer2355:
First of all, welcome to the forums!
Well there could be a few possibilities of why your having these hard starts. They could range from a leaking fuel injector, bad check valve in the fuel pump, leaking fuel pressure regulator or an issue with the ECT showing the incorrect temperature values.
I would loan out a fuel pressure testing gauge and check for KOEO fuel pressure and check those against factory specs. You can also do an injector leak down test too.
+1
1. Try opening the throttle slightly and see if the vehicle starts better, if it does check for a sticky Idle Air Control Valve (IAC).
2. Verify there is fuel psi when the problem occurs fuel psi should be 47-54psi with the vacuum hose disconnected at fuel psi regulator and engine running, and
38-46psi with the vacuum hose connected and engine running. Fuel psi should also hold steady with little drop for at least 15min with the key on engine off.
3. Check coolant temp sensor operation. @ 68deg. the coolant sensor should read 2000-4000 ohms, @ 104deg. 900-1200 ohms, @ 176deg. 300-400ohms.Quoted From David Zitterich:
1. Try opening the throttle slightly and see if the vehicle starts better, if it does check for a sticky Idle Air Control Valve (IAC).
2. Verify there is fuel psi when the problem occurs fuel psi should be 47-54psi with the vacuum hose disconnected at fuel psi regulator and engine running, and
38-46psi with the vacuum hose connected and engine running, but also check that it holds psi with the key on engine off for atleast 5min.
3. Check coolant temp sensor operation. @ 68deg. the coolant sensor should read 2000-4000 ohms, @ 104deg. 900-1200 ohms, @ 176deg. 300-400ohms.Quoted From hondaslave1342:
what about the key fob?…i haved the same car,,,and my car would not start sometimes and the green key indicator on cluster came on…replaced and starts everytime..had this problem for over a year…crank and crank…..but this fixed the problem…
Excellent suggestions dreamer thanks for your post. If the fuel pump is running it’s not a main relay issue as that normally causes no fuel pressure when it fails. It is possible as has been suggested that it could be the check valve in the fuel pump if the fuel pressure drops off after you shut the engine down, it should remain for at the very least 30 min after shut down. That said there are sometimes issues with the immobilizer system in that it doesn’t read your key properly (normally indicated by a flashing green ‘key’ shaped light on the dash as you crank the engine), this problem often occurs near high tension power lines so if you are near large electrical fields when this is happening it could be a contributing factor.
Thanks for all of the great suggestions. Here is where I am at. When the key is cycled on and off a few time it fires normally, this is pointing me in the direction of the fuel pump check valve, a leaking fuel injector would typically create a rough idle at start up correct?
Is the fuel pressure regulator on that vehicle vacuum operated or do you have a return-less fuel system?
Given that when you cycle the key I think you might have a problem with the fuel pump check valve as you stated. It’s not often that Honda’s have a problem with leaking fuel injectors but you you were able to monitor the fuel pressure during the condition and pinched off the return and feed lines you could isolate the fuel rail to see if it holds pressure, if it does then you don’t have a leaking injector. I often find that it’s the check valve in the fuel pump in a situation like yours. If you do decide to replace the pump I strongly recommend you use an OE unit as the aftermarket ones are not as good in my opinion unless you manage to find a Denso as they are the OE manufacturer I believe.
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