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My daily driver is a 1999 Honda Civic EX (D16Y8) manual transmission. Everything is stock except for an AEM short air intake. A few weeks ago, I threw a rod which put a hole in the block and had a friend of a friend put in another engine, the same model. I think it came from a scrap yard. I’m not certain of all the minor details but I did save myself a couple grand (that I didn’t have anyway) if I went though the Honda dealership. The original engine had around 168K miles on it, but the scrap yard engine had around 100K. I won’t be going back to this mechanic as there were several things not so good when I got my car back – the rubber seal that connects the air intake tube to the throttle body was bent back when it was clamped down so air was getting in. The power steering reservoir tank was basically empty but luckily I had some extra lying around to fill it. He left the top timing belt cover off by accident and told me he was too lazy to put it back on after bolting the valve cover on. Last and worst of all, he told me he couldn’t get the timing right between the camshaft and crankshaft. The mechanic did install a new timing belt and water pump. The engine is knocking, but it sounds more like a ticking sound and my car also has very poor idle problems – it will stall out almost every time I stop the car. I did remove the IAC valve and there was a lot of carbon build up which I cleaned out with brake parts cleaner. Didn’t make any noticeable difference. This engine does not have a FIT valve.
Note that none of these issues were happening and no CEL before this engine was put in.
Check engine light is on. I took it to Advance Auto Parts and had them hook up the code reader and I also did this manually this evening by shorting out the ECU service connector. The codes I am getting are 23 (Knock Sensor), 41 (Primary Oxygen Sensor – Heater), 71, 72, 73 (Cylinder 1, 2 & 3 misfire).
The ticking sound: it only occurs when I accelerate. On cold start, it won’t start ticking for a couple of miles when it warms up. It won’t tick when I just barely touch the gas, but the more gas I give it and the more load it has, it is more prominent. At higher RPM’s, roughly around 3,500 and up, the ticking gets very quiet and is pretty non-existent so I drive now at higher rpm’s than usual and give as little gas as possible so it doesn’t make the sound until I fix it myself.
If the timing between the cam and crank is actually off, I wonder if that is causing the ticking sound and misfires? The car doesn’t seem to run poorly enough to really notice compared to my previous engine. The plan tomorrow is to take off the crankshaft pulley and check the timing marks to see if it really isn’t lined up correctly and correct it if it is. I plan on testing the O2 sensor and replacing it this upcoming weekend, maybe that will fix the idle issue. The spark plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor are about a year and a half old. I will check those out tomorrow.
Anyway, I am still a novice with cars. I have only really been learning this past year doing all of my own maintenance and it is beginning to become an addiction. Thanks to Eric and all his videos I have learned a lot and I have overloaded my brain today about timing belts and valve assembly. I think I am going in the right direction with this problem but any advice would be great. I will try to get a video of the sound it’s making tomorrow and as well as an update on the timing gears alignment. I really want to get a good diagnosis going of the issues before I start throwing money and parts at it.
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You may want to check compression on your cylinders.
see if this helps.http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/diagnosing-noises-in-your-car
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-performance-issues
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-idle-problems
Okay. I went to Advance and got a compression tester. My procedure was start the car, pull the fuel pump relay so it died. Then I took the spark plugs out. Took my intake piping off and held the throttle cable back with a zip tie so the throttle plate was open. Screwed the compressor tool in each spark plug well and cranked over 6 times for each. I did not do a wet test and I didn’t have a buddy around to watch the tester on each crank. My readings were:
C1 – 210
C2 – 210
C3 – 210
C4 – 160Keep in mind the first 3 cylinders were giving the 71, 72, 73 misfire codes. I haven’t yet done any research on what any of this may mean. I know that the D16Y8 has a compression ratio of 9.6:1 so these numbers seem quite high.
I checked my oil while at Advance and the dip stick was basically dry. I had to add two quarts and it is now reading the half way mark between the two holes. I have only had the car back for a week and this is the first time I have checked the oil since. I don’t know if the mechanic just didn’t put enough in or it is leaking/burning. Considering he didn’t fill the power steering reservoir, I wouldn’t be surprised at the former. I will keep an eye on it every day.
I had a dummy moment today when doing the compression test. It came with an adapter that I don’t think I even needed to put on and actually forgot that I had put it on. When I tried to unscrew the hose out after cylinder 1 test, the adapter stayed in there and was stuck. I ended up having to pick up some Permatex Red Threadlocker. Put a few dabs on the connecting hose, screwed it in and waited an hour. It came right out. Boy that was a good lesson learned but searching the internet, seemed to be a very common mistake.
Anyway, haven’t yet had time to take the bottom timing cover off and crankshaft pulley to check the TDC marks. It will be my first time attempting something like this. Hopefully I have time tomorrow.
A valve adjustment is on the agenda this week as well.
compression looks good # 4 is low but exceptable for now.
Two quarts low not good. You should change the oil and filter.
Check that your fuel injectors are fully seated and the rail is
tight. Do yourself a favor check every fluid on this car. Is the fuel
stale in the car? If there is a fuel filter you may want to change it
Try a power balance test by unplugging each injector. You may want to
check for vacuum leaks.The saying goes, ‘you get what you pay for’. Unfortunately, that may be all too true in this case.
I see several things wrong here. The first is the low compression on cylinder #4. It is low enough to cause an issue. A different of 15%-20% between cylinders is considered significant. So right off the bat, you may have an issue with cylinder #4 that can cause a misfire and also power loss. I would recommend you do a leak down test on that cylinder to see what the cause of the leak is.
In addition to that the noise you hear while accelerating may be the timing as you have suspected and others have pointed out. I would first check the mechanical timing as you were already about to do. Good thinking on your part BTW. If that’s good, then I recommend you check ignition timing.
Lastly, you have to go over the work that was done. It sounds like it was rushed or not done properly. This could leave the door open for future issues so it would be a good idea to go over everything and make sure it’s hooked up correctly.
The elephant in the room however is the low compression on cylinder #4. See if you can track down the cause of that before you put anymore time and money into it.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Thank you all for the advice. I did a power balance test last night and each pull of the fuel injector connectors made the rpm’s drop significantly. It took a minute to get the idle smooth around 1,000 rpm’s to even perform this test without it stalling before I could even get back under the hood. I had success.
Here are what my spark plugs look like. They all look like this with beige colored crust on them. No real difference between each spark plug. I’m assuming these are the same plugs from the previous engine, so I don’t know if this is even useful. I checked the gaps, which were in spec.
I have a coworker who likes working on cars and his home is out in the middle of nowhere and has peace and silence, perfect for the leakdown test since I don’t have a garage here. On Amazon, I found an OTC 5609 Cylinder Leakage Tester Kit. It seems to be highly rated and not too expensive. What’s also nice is I have a $25 gift card I can use towards that. Woohoo! I will have to wait for it to be shipped here first unfortunately.
Before I even do the leakdown test, I’d like to check the mechanical timing to make sure it is good. A timing light, I can’t quite afford that yet on top of the leak tester so that will be a project for next weekend.
I went to a junkyard today, my 2nd experience so it was still a little intimidating but very fun. They were 30 minutes from closing so I had hardly any time to look around. I was trying to find an O2 sensor and they only cost $8 at this place. I didn’t bring the right size wrench because I was in a hurry to get there and I should probably bring my multimeter next time to test it out. Most of the Honda exhaust systems were completely torn out but I did find an Accord with an O2 sensor intact. The only problem was, the sticker on the car that has the year and model was missing but I took some photos to see if I can find it searching online and maybe it will work. The sensor looks exactly like the one I need.
It was really hot out for the first time this year in Virgina, so on my way home, I decided to test the A/C out. While I was slowing down at stop lights my idle would not drop below 2,000 until I came to a completely dead stop and it would drop to normal at 1,000. When I pressed the A/C button to turn it on (temp turned all the way cold), my rpm’s dropped so much my car was idling very rough and about to stall. When I turned it off, idle went back up to normal. The a/c does work and gets cold, thankfully. I don’t know if this huge load that’s causing a significant idle drop says anything?
Thanks again guys – I will keep this updated. Even if I don’t figure this thing out or my engine ends up being toast, I am really enjoying this experience and I have picked up some cool tools on the way.
You don’t need to purchase a leak down tester. Honestly, the only leak down tester I purchased, I purchased to make the video with. Up to that point I had just used my compression tester hose with the schrader valve removed. I don’t need to know the percentage of leakage, just where the leak is when doing a leak down test. Low compression means you have a leak. All I want to know when doing a leak down test is if I can just remove the head, or if I have to remove the entire engine.
Bottom line, you’re facing an uphill battle no matter how you slice it. Anytime you’re going in to correct someone else’s bad work you’re at a disadvantage. I personally have had to go back and redo entire jobs because of stuff like this. Given that the entire engine was replaced by someone who seems less than professional, means that it’s possible you may have to go back over all the work that was done to find the issues. Unfortunate yes, but it may be exactly what you’re facing.
Good luck and keep us posted.
I’m still learning about the mechanical timing so bare with me. In the service manual, it looks like when the camshaft TDC is lined up, the crankshaft TDC should also line up. I think from what I learned from you Eric, is that the white notch is TDC and the 3 grouped notches is 16°±2° on the crankshaft. Correct me if I’m wrong!
What I did was rotate the crankshaft counterclockwise until the camshaft sprocket was pointing up at TDC (refer to the photo). Then I shined my flashlight down and looked at the notches to see if anything lined up to the marks on the lower timing belt cover. Well, it doesn’t. I gave the crankshaft more rotations and kept checking to be sure and it was the same result.
Camshaft at TDC…
Crankshaft +19° to +20° from TDC I’d say just visually looking. You can’t see the white TDC mark in this photo, but it’s under there to to the right.
From what I have read just searching around the internet, if the timing was off just slightly, my valves/pistons would be destroyed already…but the car doesn’t seem that bad. There were lots of different opinions though. That rattling sound is pretty annoying when I hit the accelerator in pretty hard and the performance does drag slightly, especially in these Virginia hills.
Any advice here?
As I check out my car each day, I feel like I keeping finding things that are wrong. Missing an engine mount nut on the driver side, next to the timing belt. There is also a hose missing that connects to the air intake piping that was there before they had my car. From D16Y8’s I have seen with custom air intakes, I have seen these capped, so I don’t know if it’s even important, but what is important is that there isn’t even a cap on it so air is getting through that small hole.
I cleaned inside the throttle body and the plate. It was pretty dirty. The idle still has a wide variance. Most of the time now, instead of stalling, it won’t go below 2,000 – 2,500 RPM’s! It sounds like I’m revving the engine when I’m not. I think the mechanic might have messed with the idle speed adjustment to compensate for the stalling issue. Kind of like putting a small band-aid on a broken leg. I really don’t want to touch the idle adjustment until I get the other issues worked out first because it might not even need it.
When I did my compression test, I got the adapter stuck in the spark plug well the other day. I had to use Permatex to get it to unscrew so now I can’t take off the schrader valve. What I did was, I stuck a screwdriver down in there and turned it a few times and somehow I managed to get the schrader valve permanently open so that worked. I didn’t have a successful test last night so I will have to try again. Mainly because I live in a downtown area where it is extremely noisy and I also live in an apartment. I bet my neighbors love me running an air compressor for long periods of time heh.
If the mechanical timing is off, everything is off. Ignore the naysayers and their bent valve talk. I hear it all the time. Truth is, you don’t know until you put everything back in time so don’t assume anything until you’ve done that. I would recommend you set the mechanical timing correctly and recheck. Yes, the single white mark is TDC. Ignore the other 3 marks as they are only there to help verify ignition timing. Also, the engine rotates counterclockwise as you’ve already pointed out.
This was a botched job no matter how you look at it. As I said, it’s likely you’re going to have to go back over everything to make sure it’s right before it is right.
Good luck and keep us updated.
I found an old abandoned gas station near my apartment to work on my car. Lots of people park there for the businesses nearby – seems that no one cares and no one gave me a second look when having my car torn apart and my tools laying out heh.
So, I can’t get the pulley bolt off the crankshaft, yet. I have a breaker bar and it was just too short when I had the car jacked up. I had to put the wheel back on and lower the car for it to reach the ground while attached to the pulley holder.
I used a 11/16″ regular 1/2 drive socket and a long extension and a speed wrench. I had this assembly resting on my jack stand which was perfect height. Then I took my cross lug wrench and used it for leverage to turn the speed wrench. I ended up bending my speed wrench about 45 degrees using all my strength and that thing is thick lol. I even sprayed pb blaster a few times to give it a good soak. Nothing.
Next step: go to Harbor Freight and get a longer breaker bar and find a long steel pipe at this construction supplies version of a thrift store for multiplied torque. I hope this works out. I swear I am going to get this bolt off if it’s the last thing I ever do.
Thanks AudioFunk, although I already had went and bought one before trying to take crank pulley off.
I had further progress today and I even managed to get the crank pulley off with a 25″ breaker bar I picked up from Harbor Freight.
I did run into another problem though. The lock bolt on the alternator was stripped just enough that I could not get a grip on it to loosen and to take off the belt. I ordered a 6-piece set of special sockets to get this off (generally called turbo sockets). More tools for the arsenal! 👿 I should get this Tuesday and will update later this week.
You can’t have any hoses on the intake sucking air. Either plug them or find where they should connect.
As for percentage of leakdown, that’s important to an engine builder preparing an engine for a race car. There’s no use installing the engine if it isn’t going to perform. For the average owner, the percentage is whatever it is. Your are just trying to find out where the air is leaking from, leaking valve or leaking rings.
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