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1999 Civic VP 1.6 Liter Crank No Start
Long time reader, First time poster.. LOL.. sorry, the older crowd will get it. First and foremost thank you for this outstanding website. It is an ultimate resource that I have used several times. Now on to the issues.
I purchased the civic for $200 from a guy at work with it in the current Crank No Start condition thinking at worst I could scrap the parts on ebay or craigslist and make my money back. Has about 108,000 miles on it and in very good physical condition. According to the previous owner he took a corner coming in to work at a high rate of speed (~40 mph) did not crash or wreck but suddenly the car died and would not start again. That was 4 months ago. I take it to the home shop and have testing the following (although not necessarily in this order):
-Checked all fuses in both the engine compartment and inside the car. All good including testing of relays and auto reset fuses.
-Timing marks upper and lower are spot on (removed valve cover and upper timing cover).
-New spark plugs and properly gapped each verified to have a bright white spark at each plug out of the cylinder. Even left one too close to the cylinder and it ignited the vaporized fuel coming out LOL.
-Fuel pressure at the filter and at the fuel rail (no guage setup to check actual pressure).
-Fuel is getting into the cylinder plugs wet(removed plug cables and left plugs in while turning over).
-Visually observed vaporized fuel blowing from each cylinder.
-Tried starting fluid. Engine did not detonate.
-Main relay tested good to fuel pump and ECU (tested even though I could hear the fuel pump prime).
-Assume ECU is good (Check engine light comes on for three seconds and then goes off). Scanner does not reveal any codes.
-Firing order verified and verified and verified……
-Cylinder compression dry (after sitting for months) was 100, 110, 110, 100. Wet (induced a little oil into the cylinders) was ~125 across the board. The engine did cough twice just after the oil was added but then no more.One question that I have is if my coil could be weak. I know that its not a good way to verify but with a fluke voltmeter connected to the coil spring I only get 12 vdc while the ignition is in run condition and 14-16 vdc while starter is actuated.
Thank you guys in advance for your help. And if I missed something obvious please don’t rub it in too much… LOL
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Well if you know you have fuel spark compression and you are sure your timing is dead on try pulling out your upstream o2 sensor and see if the car starts then i do this when i think there might be a restriction in the exhaust. You said you have spark but how wet are your plugs when you remove them they shouldnt be saturated
[quote=”K5mudlife” post=85436]Well if you know you have fuel spark compression and you are sure your timing is dead on try pulling out your upstream o2 sensor and see if the car starts then i do this when i think there might be a restriction in the exhaust. You said you have spark but how wet are your plugs when you remove them they shouldnt be saturated[/quote]
I will pull the O2 sensor when I get home tonight and saturated is an overstatement on my part. I have not really done any assessments on air flow. Sure they are saturated after repeated attempts at trying to start but after a single of couple of attempts I can verify there is fuel on them but not drowned.
If engine has fuel, spark, compression, and timing it should start.
-You have fuel.
-Test for spark strength by extending spark plug cap. You can do this by holding spark plug about 6mm or 1/4’’ from engine block or using spark plug tester.
-Compression could be missing course of blocked exhaust or intake. So test for blocked exhaust by removing o2 sensor, like K5mudlife told. Test for blocked intake by opening throttle a bit while starting.
-Test spark timing with timing light.[quote=”K5mudlife” post=85439]you didn’t say saturated you said wet I just wanted to make sure wet wasn’t saturated lol[/quote]
LMAO.. I was meant saturated but wrote wet… I’m officially loosing my mind
If you had spark and fuel and the valves timed right, you should at least get coughing.
So that leaves somewhat subtle things like:
(1) There’s gas, but maybe too much, so the engine is flooded. That would explain why it doesnt fire with starting fluid either.
(2) You have gas and spark, but the ignition timing is way, way off.
About the only thing left is that the distributor has slipped its timing.
Removed o2 sensor…. no joy can feel exhaust on hand
Partially opened throttle…. no joy can feel vacuum on hand
Disconnected injectors dried cylinders amd squirted starting fluid in cylinder…. not even a burp
Slowly rotated distributer to full advance and full retard…. nothing
Verified spark plug spark yet again as a white arcIm assuming the only run command comes from the distributor suppling a 12 vdc supply to plugs while in the run position?
Just for S&G`s i checked the coil even though i was getting spark and got 1.5 ohms on the A-B terminals and 15,500 from A terminal to high side. So if my meter is correct my a- b side out of whack????
see if this helps.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
If this happened all of a sudden, and someone hasn’t made things worse since then, and you’re getting spark and fuel, about all that’s left is that the spark is way off timing, like the distributor gear has lost a tooth or two and has slipped many, many degrees. Verify that when the valves are both closed, and the piston is at TDC, the distributor rotor is pointing to that cylinder.
[quote=”valde” post=85440]
-Test for spark strength by extending spark plug cap. You can do this by holding spark plug about 6mm or 1/4’’ from engine block or using spark tester.
-Test spark timing with timing light.[/quote]If these things along with other things that you already have tested are ok engine will start.
[quote=”K5mudlife” post=85497]Are we sure the distributor is timed?[/quote]
I think as best I can with a non-running engine. Placed cylinder 1 (TDC) in the top position and marked the distributor housing with a marker according to the center of the rotor bug. Then replaced cap and verified my mark with the plug locations on the cap. Still did not fire. I did find that the rotor bug contact was tarnished so cleaned it carefully with some emery cloth until it the metal portion was shiny (was freezing and ready for bed at this point so did not re-assemble and try to fire). Today and this weekend I think I’m going to start throwing some inexpensive parts at the ignition system (at least a coil). After my coil readings I just don’t trust it.
I would consider going back to a fuel delivery issue. Use a fuel pressure gauge. While it may be getting fuel, there may not be enough pressure or possibly the injectors are leaking and flooding the engine (check by bringing up to pressure by turning key to on position a couple of times and then see if the fuel pressure drops)…also, you may want to check for bends or kinks in the fuel line all the way back to the tank. It possibly is delivering pressure but not volume… this can be easily overlooked…
Maybe bad gas… have you added any new gas?
Is there anything restricting the airflow into the throttle body?
Grounded fuel injector harness… check with noid light…
While I may be reaching here, when you get to this point you start looking at long shots…
I do agree with others, a broken distributor gear (have you inspected this?)… or a restricted exhaust… may want to check by disconnecting the exhaust pipe from the manifold. ..
By the way, your compression numbers look a little low… but I am not a Honda guy, so maybe this is OK..
Last case is usually replace the ECM..
By the way, how much do you trust the guy who sold you this and how much do you trust his story?
Not to call him a liar, but I have bought and repaired cars and found what the previous owner said about it was far less than truthful…
Karl
What motor do you have?
I would try and find some local Honda guys, and see if they would let you try one of their distributors.
Hold on a minute before you start replacing parts. First, recheck the ignition system. Use this video as a guide.
If you strike out there, check the ignition switch.
The above can also cause a no start condition. I usually hold the key in the ON position and I’m able to get it to stay running if it’s an ignition switch issue.
Also, I don’t remember if you wrote this or not but check all the fuses, especially the ones under the dash as that’s where the ignition fuse is.
More information in this article you might find useful.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
Keep us posted.
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