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1998 Honda Accord EX F23A1, 5speed – Stalls

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  • #571708
    JamesJames
    Participant

      First – I’ve been a watcher of ETCG vids for some time. A wealth of info. It is great that he can take the time to record, explain and upload all of this information for the everyday person.

      Ok, so last week (1/20/14) I picked up a 1998 Honda Accord EX 4cyl F23A1 manual trans.
      Some history on it, the previous owner made a living as a mechanic. He had owned it about a year, during that time he experienced misfire conditions on a road trip. Turned out to be burnt valves and a couple bad fuel injectors. He ended rebuilding the top end with new valve guides and seats, replacing the head gasket, timing belt, (the other belt there with the timing belt, tensioner’s, etc..) cap, rotor, plugs, etc…

      It looked ok, drove ok, although at this point I wished I had done a more adequate test drive before purchasing.

      on Tuesday, 1/21/14, I drove the car to work which is about a 35 mile commute. While on the freeway going about 70mph, the car stalls. gauges, lights, everything shuts off, but being manual, it kicked back on and continued running. This freaked me out, so I got to work and began some research.. I found there is a common issue with starter switch getting worn on these. Right after work, I hit the auto store, picked up a new switch and installed it. Never had an issue until today on my way home from work, it happened to stall a second time.

      Other symptoms I’ve experienced… Acceleration seems pretty poor after around 3000rpm and beyond. Not much get up an go. There is a clunk when it starts up.. something I would think might be a motor mount. I replaced the front motor mount but still clunks on startup.
      I had a leaky seal around a fuel injector. I replaced that fuel injector completely which fixed the leak.
      I replaced air filter and drive belts. (belts just because they were old)
      I checked spark plugs and they appeared white. a couple appeared VERY white with a crusty white coating. I checked online for this condition and saw mixed results saying this was “normal” to this is a “lean condition”.

      I don’t know if the poor/gutless acceleration and the stalling is related, but both sure are annoying.

      I know cap, rotor, wires and plugs were replaced recently, because I have receipts from previous owner. Timing belt was done 10/2013 with head gasket.

      I’m not sure where else to go from here. Maybe check my main relay for potential short? I’ve never experienced a no-start situation, just stalling… in the highway… with lots of traffic at high speeds… which can get hairy..

      Do white plugs indicate lean condition? Could it be poor fuel delivery? Maybe I need a fuel pressure test? How would one test fuel pressure on this fuel rail without a valve? Tap into the banjo nut? Could it be possible filter on fuel pump assembly clogged.

      The plugs are NGK iridium’s, which I’ve been told is overkill for this F23A1. Should I replace with the plain nickel/copper NGK spec’d for this engine? Does it matter?

      Also, the clutch seems like I need to push pretty close to floor in order to shift. Seems like I don’t get much up-travel before it will kill on me. Could that be related or just separate issue of worn clutch. I found I get a bit of bounce when I let off the clutch pedal after shifting gears.

      Well, seems like I covered the majority.
      In closing, just interested in causes to:
      1. poor acceleration >3k rpm
      2. clunky start up (could be other engine mounts? or clutch?)
      3. stalling in the middle of driving.

      Thoughts?

      Thanks in advance!!

    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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    • #571712
      valdevalde
      Participant

        Maybe fuel pump? What do you mean by clunky start up? It makes clunky sound but starts right away? Or it starts kind of clunky firing not firing and then starting (and while doing that makes noise) if this then everything can be explained by fuel pump.

        #571733
        JamesJames
        Participant

          [quote=valde]Maybe fuel pump? … if this then everything can be explained by fuel pump. [/quote]

          Thanks for your response, Valde. Fuel pump is on my list of suspicions. Are they known for intermittent failures? I’m still not clear on the meaning of white spark plugs and if that really indicates a lean condition. If lean, I would also suspect fuel pump is not producing the appropriate fuel pressure or could be the filter is really clogged. I don’t know how to rule this out being that this is intermittent. The only thing I think I can do is pressure test on the fuel rail, but I don’t know how a tester would hook up when Honda doesn’t supply a Schrader valve to tap into on the rail.

          [quote=valde]What do you mean by clunky start up? It makes clunky sound but starts right away? Or it starts kind of clunky firing not firing and then starting (and while doing that makes noise) … [/quote]

          Sometimes.. Not all the time it seems a noticeable “clunk” is heard when it turns over. Almost like the motor moves in the engine bay. It doesn’t have any problem starting and seems to fire every time it’s tried. It just kind of clunks. Maybe a video might capture it. I’ll see if I can get one, post it somewhere and link to it.

          But at this point with my research, I am suspecting fuel delivery (fuel pump and/or integrated fuel filter/sock.) or I have seen people with similar issues saying they’ve replaced the ignition control module (ICM) within their distributor OR replaced the entire distributor assembly.

          I am more than happy replacing fuel pump, ICM or distributor only if it’s needed. I don’t have the cash to just throw parts at this to rule things out. Ideally I would like to rule out which is the culprit through diagnosis of some sort and just replace that part, but I guess I need some help.

          Then again, the issue could be none of these things. I just don’t know.

          I’ve thought of paying a Honda Dealership to diag it, but then again I’ve had them do diag for me about 12 years ago on a 1989 Honda Prelude I had at the time that had issues with running too rich and failing emissions (when cold). I wanted to have it adjusted to not run so rich and because it had the dual side-draft carb setup and no fancy PGM-FI, they basically said they didn’t know, had it for a week and charged me $90, told me to buy a new car and sent me on my way.

          Thanks again for your response

          #571744
          valdevalde
          Participant

            Simple test that comes to my mind is to see what O2 sensor 1 reads at full throttle. If it less than 0,5V its fuel related.

            #571754
            JamesJames
            Participant

              [quote=”valde” post=86788]Simple test that comes to my mind is to see what O2 sensor 1 reads at full throttle. If it less than 0,5V its fuel related.[/quote]

              Thank you!
              I will work on a way to test this out and report back my findings.

              #571762
              valdevalde
              Participant

                Scan tool will so it. That’s probably easiest way.

                #571764
                JamesJames
                Participant

                  [quote=”valde” post=86797]Scan tool will so it. That’s probably easiest way.[/quote]
                  Thanks. I have a scan tool.. but I think it’s more like a code checker/clearer. I don’t believe its meant for live data.
                  I do have a OBD2 adapter for my laptop that I’ve used in the past. The challenge was finding a piece of software that worked well and didn’t cost a fortune. Will definitely explore my options.

                  #571771
                  JamesJames
                  Participant

                    This issue has just been consuming my brain. I hate when things just wont work like they should.
                    I just checked prices on fuel pumps. Amazon had killer deal on new Bosch pump and strainer so I just ordered it. (~$60.00) when the local car parts shops wanted ~$120+ for pump alone and strainer was additional $20.00 and these were just generic brands.
                    I also ordered new NGK plugs and fuel pressure regulator as well just to rule those out. Opted for 1 day shipping, so we’ll see what I find when I replace these things.
                    I’ll post back with findings.

                    #571787
                    JamesJames
                    Participant

                      Check this out. got a wild hair and pulled my main relay and just guess what I found.
                      yup, bad solder joint under a 12V relay side.

                      I’ll be re-flowing this bad boy and give it the old highway smoke test. Fingers crossed this is the cause of the stalling issue.

                      Will report back with results.

                      Have to thank ScannerDanner and EricTheCarGuy on their main relay vids.

                    Viewing 8 replies - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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