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[quote=”Nick2317″ post=133613]Like I said in my tweet to you …Chrysler automatics use ATF+ …..other automatic fluid will not work I have seen it first hand and heard from my father who was an Chrysler master tech …..I would try and drain the fluid from that change the filter and clean everything up and fill with ATF+ ……use the stuff from Walmart just as good as anywhere else ….it will work ….Ill bet you $100.00[/quote]
The ATF I used I had on hand. Please remember that this transmission was obviously run low on fluid for some time and the likelyhood that it’s still viable was beyond slim. Had I made any progress by adding a quart of transmission fluid, I would have then done a drain and refill with a filter and the proper fluid.
In short, when you’re pretty sure a transmission is toast, you don’t pour the good stuff in because it’s a waste of money. There’s no fluid on the planet that will cure burned up clutches and bands.
I stand by my actions and my diagnosis. Thanks for your input.
[quote=”Nick2317″ post=133613]Like I said in my tweet to you …Chrysler automatics use ATF+ …..other automatic fluid will not work I have seen it first hand and heard from my father who was an Chrysler master tech …..I would try and drain the fluid from that change the filter and clean everything up and fill with ATF+ ……use the stuff from Walmart just as good as anywhere else ….it will work ….Ill bet you $100.00[/quote]
Instead of betting $100 why don’t you put that towards some ATF+ to for Eric to prove or disprove your theory with…
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=133678][quote=”Nick2317″ post=133613]Like I said in my tweet to you …Chrysler automatics use ATF+ …..other automatic fluid will not work I have seen it first hand and heard from my father who was an Chrysler master tech …..I would try and drain the fluid from that change the filter and clean everything up and fill with ATF+ ……use the stuff from Walmart just as good as anywhere else ….it will work ….Ill bet you $100.00[/quote]
The ATF I used I had on hand. Please remember that this transmission was obviously run low on fluid for some time and the likelyhood that it’s still viable was beyond slim. Had I made any progress by adding a quart of transmission fluid, I would have then done a drain and refill with a filter and the proper fluid.
In short, when you’re pretty sure a transmission is toast, you don’t pour the good stuff in because it’s a waste of money. There’s no fluid on the planet that will cure burned up clutches and bands.
I stand by my actions and my diagnosis. Thanks for your input.[/quote]
If the transmission been ran low on fluid , its going to have much the effect as running a car out of oil , it is not going to end well , it’s not engaging reverse gear when selected , bad things have happened inside , those auto’s weren’t known for their reliability either .
The trans was low on fluid and one quart brought it back up to full. I doubt that one quart down was the reason for the no reverse situation.
[quote=”rhoptry” post=133809]The trans was low on fluid and one quart brought it back up to full. I doubt that one quart down was the reason for the no reverse situation.[/quote]
1 quart means more to an automatic transmission than it does an engine. Low fluid can cause aeration, which in turn causes the clutches and bands not to engage fully. When that happens the transmission starts to slip. As it slips, it creates heat. The heat damages other components in the transmission and once enough material burns away from the clutches and bands, the transmission fails.
As for it not being the ‘correct’ fluid that I topped it off with, in this situation it doesn’t matter. The additional fluid would prevent aeration and allow the transmission to work again if it was possible. Pretty much the same as topping of a leaking radiator with water. It’s better than nothing and will at least allow the system to work again.
People run Dextron in Honda’s all the time. It doesn’t cause the transmissions to fail right away, but it does cause them to shift differently. My point is that different fluid is not the cause of the transmission not working. It’s the damaged components within it that are causing it not to work.
Make sure when you put a new trans in it that you have access to a good scan tool. With these trans you need to go into the transmission module and reset the CVI’s and do a quick relearn (in functional tests on SO scanners).
With a van of this vintage even an old red brick scanner has the ability to do it. I used to maintain an entire fleet of 96-01 Caravans for a taxi company. Before I got a Solus Pro I used a red brick with good results on this model.
Whatever trans you get, be sure the diff pin retainer is updated. The weak link on A604’s was that the cross pin in the final drive isn’t held into the carrier housing by a solid pin with threads like you would be used to seeing. They used a hollow roll pin. It will lose its tension over time and allow the pin to work out of the housing. Either eats into the case and shoots through to the torque convertor or will launch through the top of the housing and leave a fist-sized hole in it. Doesn’t usually make noise or give any other warning that it is going to happen, just grenades the case with a big bang and a big puddle of ATF on the ground. Factory work around to this was a bracket that covers both ends of the diff pin using ring gear bolts. Pretty rare to ever see the carrier bearings fail in my experience with these so what I do is tack weld the pin on each end to the carrier. Not an approved method but will not allow it to grenade the case.
I second Eric that the trans is junk. These were weak to begin with. The use of Dextron for the test wasn’t what did it in, though were you to try running it on the new trans it will cut its life way way down and cause shifting issues early on after rebuild.
It is obvious from looking at the oily mess at the front of this transmission that it has been low on fluid more than once.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=133957]Make sure when you put a new trans in it that you have access to a good scan tool. With these trans you need to go into the transmission module and reset the CVI’s and do a quick relearn (in functional tests on SO scanners).
With a van of this vintage even an old red brick scanner has the ability to do it. I used to maintain an entire fleet of 96-01 Caravans for a taxi company. Before I got a Solus Pro I used a red brick with good results on this model.
Whatever trans you get, be sure the diff pin retainer is updated. The weak link on A604’s was that the cross pin in the final drive isn’t held into the carrier housing by a solid pin with threads like you would be used to seeing. They used a hollow roll pin. It will lose its tension over time and allow the pin to work out of the housing. Either eats into the case and shoots through to the torque convertor or will launch through the top of the housing and leave a fist-sized hole in it. Doesn’t usually make noise or give any other warning that it is going to happen, just grenades the case with a big bang and a big puddle of ATF on the ground. Factory work around to this was a bracket that covers both ends of the diff pin using ring gear bolts. Pretty rare to ever see the carrier bearings fail in my experience with these so what I do is tack weld the pin on each end to the carrier. Not an approved method but will not allow it to grenade the case.
I second Eric that the trans is junk. These were weak to begin with. The use of Dextron for the test wasn’t what did it in, though were you to try running it on the new trans it will cut its life way way down and cause shifting issues early on after rebuild.[/quote]
Thanks for the input. I’ve got a decent scanner, an Encore that I believe will do the trick. I’m getting the trans from ETE, I’m sure it’ll have all the updated.
Thanks again.
From a pro rebuilder they should definitely have the update. Would be foolish of them to warranty it with doing so. Just check the functional test menu on your scanner for the transmission quick relearn to be sure you will be ready to go. The actual relearn just takes a minute or less after you let the vehicle get up to running temp.
If you get gear ratio error codes and it limp modes, check the two speed sensors. They are up front near the big solenoid pack. One watches the trans drive speed and the other watches the torque convertor speed. Cheap sensors and if one isn’t reading quite right the default is to lock you into 2nd gear. Scored a van for scrap price because of that once.
You should also check the recorded tire size in the trans module. You wouldn’t think it makes a difference but it really does. With that van you can change it to a different size and it will adjust everything with shifting points and recalibrate the speedometer to read right. The menu of sizes gives something on the order of 25 or 30 sizes to choose from. That is also in functional tests menu of the trans module.
[quote=”nickwarner” post=134030]From a pro rebuilder they should definitely have the update. Would be foolish of them to warranty it with doing so. Just check the functional test menu on your scanner for the transmission quick relearn to be sure you will be ready to go. The actual relearn just takes a minute or less after you let the vehicle get up to running temp.
If you get gear ratio error codes and it limp modes, check the two speed sensors. They are up front near the big solenoid pack. One watches the trans drive speed and the other watches the torque convertor speed. Cheap sensors and if one isn’t reading quite right the default is to lock you into 2nd gear. Scored a van for scrap price because of that once.
You should also check the recorded tire size in the trans module. You wouldn’t think it makes a difference but it really does. With that van you can change it to a different size and it will adjust everything with shifting points and recalibrate the speedometer to read right. The menu of sizes gives something on the order of 25 or 30 sizes to choose from. That is also in functional tests menu of the trans module.[/quote]
Dude, solid information. Thanks. I’ll defiantly take this into consideration when doing the replacement. Thanks very much for the info.
Sorry, its been a long day, and I can’t organize my thoughts, so its going to be very messy, but I wanted to put in my knowledge from dealing with these Chrysler transmissions.
I wouldn’t say these transmissions are bad. They have a lot of mistreatment with the fluid used in them. Chrysler also published that dexron could be used in the transmission if ATF+3/+4 wasn’t available, which is absolutely not true, in a way, setting up a bad reputation for these transmissions.
Their main issue, besides the diff pin, is the control solenoid. The control solenoid has none serviceable filters which clog when you don’t change the fluid regularly.Also, these transmissions only have clutches, no bands.
The speed sensor used on the transmission also controls the speedometer for the car.
The only way to diagnose these transmissions is to use a code reader to figure out what the transmission computer knows. Usually you first want to know what codes are stored in the transmission computer, and also the Clutch Volume Index (CVI) before you proceed with anything.
Also, its an overall fairly simple transmission, mechanically, with a ton of electronics to make up for the missing mechanical stuff. Rebuilding it might be cheaper than trying to replace.
Another advantage if one was to fix this transmission rather than getting a different one is to upgrade it with a shift kit or at least valve body modifications to increase fluid volume to the clutch packs, and to decrease time between shifts as well as firming up the shifts with front pump mods and other stuff that should be done to all Autos. Some of this is computer controlled but I am sure there are ways to improve the internals too. I am not on expert on these transmissions by any means but with rebuild trans it would be a great time to send the converter to a rebuilder and have them increase the stall speed/converter diameter. If this was my van I would go for a stall speed of about 3200.
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