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Topic
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Sorry for such a long post.
I have a 1997 Honda Civic that I am getting to the end of things I am able to check myself. I put in 5 gallons of fuel the night before my wife drove the vehicle. The next day the car bogged down and died about 10 miles from home. I tried getting it to run later in the evening with no success. I had the vehicle towed home. After checking several things nothing seemed to indicate a problem. After several conversations with my brother-in-law, a long time Honda mechanic in another state, I tried putting 5 more gallons of fresh fuel in. The problem seamed to greatly decrease. So I tried driving the vehicle to run out what we thought was bad fuel. After 65 miles of reasonable driving it bogged down and died, refusing to restart. I put in another 3 gallons of fuel with no effect. I towed the car home. After checking somethings, while checking the spark it decided it wanted to start again.
I have used a service manual to check many things. The vehicle has yet to throw a code.
Symptoms:
• Engine starts and idles fine sometimes. No real pattern can be determined. When it fails to start the plugs are flooded with fuel. I checked spark and it’s still present when it fails to start.
• When it starts, Revving the engine causes it to bog down cold or hot
• Engine will slowing increase rpm fineWhat’s been checked:
• Fuel pressure with fuel gauge at fuel filter (in-line with specs)
• Fuel filter was changed
• Water temperature sensor was replaced even though checked good
• O2 sensor
• Timing belt alignment is OK
• Fuel pressure regulator checks OK according to service manual
• Good spark on all 4 wires
• Air filter clean
• Dropped catalytic convertor – no change
• Disconnected each injector with uniform rpm drop at each.
• MAP sensor, throttle position sensor have voltage – I don’t have a test harness to check ECM voltagesI’m leaning toward an intermittent injector issue. Does this sound logical for the symptoms? Anything else I should check first?
By the way the vehicle has 190,000 miles. I have had it about 1-1/2 years so I don’t know much about maintenance history.
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Replies
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I don’t think its an injector issue.That would cause a misfire.
Try wiggling the ignition key back and forth while the car is running.
if it shuts off.the electrical portion of the ignition switch needs replacement.
why are you only adding small amounts of fuel at a time?here are some videos
for troubleshooting the problem.definetly check the distributor. ETCG told me to get rid of my aftermarket msd and when i was removing the dizzy didnt want to come off the camshaft. instead the pin that holds the dizzy to the shaft was broken in there. started right up. i had this very very similar problem.
Do a valve adjustment.
Set the timing.
Run some premium gas and a can of Sea Foam threw.Should run like a champ.
I had a very similar problem with an old (78) civic, back when I was poor and had no time. Eventually sold the car without finding out the cause. A key point is that the testing needs to be done when the car doesn’t start — the bane of an intermittent problem is that if it’s working fine when tested then the testing is not valid. I suspected an intermittent problem, akin to the main relay problem described in one of Eric’s videos. One bad solder joint and you’ve got a tiny pin in a haystack.
[quote=”cb7ftw” post=35644]Do a valve adjustment.
Set the timing.
Run some premium gas and a can of Sea Foam threw.Should run like a champ.[/quote]
To the person I quoted, you have much to learn grasshopper.:)
This screams timing problem to me. I know you say you checked the timing marks but I’d go back and recheck them as they are a little tricky on that engine, remember it rotates counterclockwise so be sure to turn it in that direction when you’re lining the marks up. Also the tension is important, if the belt is too loose your cam timing will be all over the place so also make sure the belt is ‘banjo tight’ but not so much it makes noise.
Honda’s just about never have fuel injector problems or fuel pump problems for that matter. They do however have loads of ignition system problems and the #1 cause is aftermarket ignition parts. I’m not saying that’s what’s causing your problem but if you have an aftermarket distributor that might be a good place to start looking if you find that the timing is correct.
Lastly here are some videos that may also offer helpful information for you.
Solving Performance Problems 1
Solving Performance Problems 2
Re Performance Problems
OK now that the storm is over and we have power again I have spend some time troubles shooting. Let me say that the comments and videos have been most helpful but I am still chasing a ghost. It does however to be pointing to an ignition timing issue.
Let me summarize:
No start condition – fuel flow OK
Pulled the distributor – dizzy and pin fine.
The distributor is a TD-80U which I think is a genuine part. The plug wires and plugs are not.
Tightened the timing belt but I’m not sure that it’s banjo tight.
Set timing with timing light.(*several times) – SCS shorted engine at temp …So after all that the engine still has no intermittent start issues and will bog down and die when. I can get the engine to start by rotating the distributor position while cranking. After this last start and timing setting the timing light seemed to indicate and intermittent firing on the cylinder. That is the the flashes were not equally spaced. The flashes actually had significant pauses between groupings.
I don’t think the plugs and wires would cause the engine to bog down and die would they? I’ll get some genuine parts and replace them next week.
Two things that I’m leaning toward.
One is maybe the timing belt is stretched and will not tighten sufficiently.
Two the distributor ignition control module is faltering.Any suggestions on additional trouble shooting before I throw more money at it?
One last thing The rotor button is rusted on. After removing the screw I can not get it off. I even tried PB penetrating fluid. If I can get it off I can replace the ICM.
I don’t recommend moving the distributor to get it to start. That said you might consider checking the mechanical timing by looking at the timing marks on both the cam and crank to make sure they line up. If they don’t ignition timing will be off because the distributor is splined to the cam.
Yes, and I even confirmed with a long screw driver in the spark plug hole. See photo of mark some one added as well as original timing mark.
However when I turn the crank the timing belt appears to ‘slacken’. Please see video. Is this level normal or is it too loose? Could the tensioner be bad since I have attempted to tighten it.
I believe this video will show and explain the correct tension.
Also Briansmobile1 has allot of timing belt replacement video’s too –
http://www.youtube.com/user/briansmobile1/videos?query=timing+belt
It’s running again. I am still not exactly sure what the issue was. But I replaced some parts with Honda parts and it’s run over 150 miles with no issues.
I replaced:
plugs (were not Honda)
wires (were not Honda)
distributor cap
rotor button
The distributor had a lot of rust in it so I cleaned it well before putting it back together.Thank you all for your input.
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