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1996 Subaru Legacy – EJ25 Misfire

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  • #577940
    Damien HillDamien Hill
    Participant

      Hey Guys,
      I’ve recently had a 1996 Subaru Legacy (Wagon) come my way for practically nothing. The previous owner told me he had spent an arm and a leg with his mechanic to find he only changed four hose clamps :ohmy: .
      Now I brought this car as a project for myself and on the condition it was overheating after about 10min of driving. When I got the car home (on a trailer) I got into it, and found a few rather interesting things. The upper radiator hose had a large hole in it which someone had tried to fix with electrical tape, but had coolant pouring out anyway. And underneath the car (near the thermostat) there was another rubber hose which someone had bogged with some sort of filler which I had to carefully chip off. I then found the two hoses going in and out of the heater core had been linked together while still in loop of the engine?!? Anyhow I spent the whole afternoon pulling all this mess out and getting all these hoses back to the way they should be… I also checked the thermostat while I was in there, and that was also an aftermarket part (I have a genuine one coming from Subaru). – Also the little jiggle pin on the thermostat, do I face this towards the top? or at the bottom. Until I get the genuine thermostat in there I can’t rule out the overheating issue, but I think this could definitely be the problem for that. Moving away from the overheat, my main question is the car also has an intermittent misfire. Now I know Subarus have the common head gasket problem, but so far I have found no water in oil / water in oil etc and no signs of a leak. But I just wanted some opinions on what I could look for in regards to the mis fire? I have checked the plugs and they all appear to be burning ok.

      Sorry for the long story, but it’s easier to put everything down so you get the full picture.

      Any input here would be awesome!

      Thanks

    Viewing 15 replies - 1 through 15 (of 15 total)
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    • #577998
      college mancollege man
      Moderator

        The jiggle valve should go in the 12’oclock position.
        As for the misfires I would look at the ignition system.
        cap,rotor,wires Has the engine light come on?

        http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-performance-issues

        #578002
        Damien HillDamien Hill
        Participant

          Hey college man,
          Thanks for the info. As for the misfiring, there is no engine lights at all. These cars don’t have a distributor (with moving parts for that matter). But my next move in this game is to replace the wires.

          #578010
          college mancollege man
          Moderator

            [quote=”D.Hill” post=86611]Hey college man,
            Thanks for the info. As for the misfiring, there is no engine lights at all. These cars don’t have a distributor (with moving parts for that matter). But my next move in this game is to replace the wires.[/quote]

            I take it has coil packs? do a power balance test.

            http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-performance-issues?start=3#PowerBalanceTesting

            #578019
            Damien HillDamien Hill
            Participant

              It doesn’t have individual coil packs, it just has one that all the wires go to like this: http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mQODs-3r1fhS1PxYKu8z01Q.jpg

              #578042
              Lorrin BarthLorrin Barth
              Participant

                The thermostat goes in upside down – sensing part towards the engine.

                #578063
                Damien HillDamien Hill
                Participant

                  OK, I have put the new thermostat in and of course the battery had gone flat when I went to start ha ha. Will charge it up and let you know what happens for the overheat.

                  However I would like to fix this misfire before I take it for a test drive. Any chance it’s worth checking the coil pack, injectors etc? Also if I measure the ohms in the leads what sort of reading should I be looking for?

                  Cheers!

                  #578290
                  Damien HillDamien Hill
                  Participant

                    OK guys so here is an update after a new thermostat. I filled the cooling system slowly with the little little bleed screw on the other side of the radiator out. Filled up the the overflow to the right level, started the car and let it run through a few fan cycles before I took it for a spin.. everything was fine, the lower hose was warm which ment the new thermostat was working fine, overflow was keeping a good level. So I then jumped in the car and went around the block a good few times and up some steep hills. Engine was still spluttering with its misfire.. but anyway the temperature gauge stayed normal the whole time I was out, and all was well until I got home. I parked up the car, popped the hood, and found the little hose for the overflow which pushes onto the radiator cap neck had popped off and the coolant has sprayed out. Now either there was a tonne of pressure in there, or it was loose… It seems loose when I put it back on. But the overflow bottle was full, the lower hose was cold, top of radiator was cold, upper hose hot and I released the cap (CAREFULLY) and slowly with a thick rag and there was so much pressure that came out. I am not sure what is going on, but my only guess is that heaps of air got sucked in when that hose came off and it boiled the water, or the radiator has a blockage. And at the very worst there is an internal engine problem. If anyone has any cool ideas of where else I could look that would be great.

                    Things I have done:
                    -Replaced all the hoses (Were all leaking originally)
                    -Thermostat (Replaced with Genuine Subaru Thermostat)
                    -Flushed the engine and Radiator

                    Any chance that a bad cap could cause this as well?

                    #578410
                    EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                    Keymaster

                      You have the 2.5L engine which is the one that’s prone to head gasket failures. Couple that with the fact that you have a misfire and a lot of pressure in the cooling system, I think it’s worth checking for a head gasket problem. BTW, if you do find a head gasket issue, pulling the engine to repair it. Since this is a ‘project’ car, this will also give you the opportunity to change some of the seals that might be leaking. More info here, including how to check for a head gasket failure.

                      http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/what-to-do-when-your-engine-overheats

                      Keep us posted.

                      #578415
                      Damien HillDamien Hill
                      Participant

                        Thanks for the reply Eric,
                        I too think this may be a head gasket issue. If I may ask your opinion.. is it easy enough to pull the engine and leave the gearbox behind? As it looks as though by removing the radiator and fans that if you loosen the gearbox from the engine it will just come forward and out. Anyway before I go this far, like you say I will do a compression test first and few other small bits.

                        Will keep you guys posted.

                        Cheers!

                        #579924
                        Damien HillDamien Hill
                        Participant

                          Hey Guys, thought you might like an update… I’ve finally gotten around to pulling the engine and removing the heads… I have attached a photo of the headgasket still attached to the head. The otherside was exactly the same, and there was evidence of dried up coolant in in a couple of the cylinders. I think this might well be the overheating / misfire issue. Take a look…

                          #580169
                          EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                          Keymaster

                            Top right looks like a problem. Also in the center between the 2 cylinders. Thanks for the update. Keep them coming as you make progress.

                            #581142
                            Damien HillDamien Hill
                            Participant

                              Update: After having received the heads back from the machine shop I have lapped all the valves in, and I have them all ready to go. But I just have a bit of a question before I go any further… I hear these Subarus use Torque To Yield bolts. Just wanted to know the deal on these, are they able to be re-used? or are they a MUST to replace? don’t want to go to all this trouble and find they break half way through…

                              Cheers!

                              #581155
                              valdevalde
                              Participant

                                Just replace head bolts. Some cases you see how to inspect if you can reuse stretch head bolts but you should only do it if they aren’t that old. And you can cut side of from one old bolt and use it to clean threads in block.

                                Tighten head bolts:
                                316
                                524
                                1) all tighten 29Nm
                                2) all tighten 69Nm
                                3) all loosen 180 degrees
                                4) all loosen 180 degrees
                                5) 1&2 tighten 34Nm
                                6) 3…6 tighten 15Nm
                                7) all tighten 90 degree
                                8) all tighten 90 degree

                                Last one should be 8 and A bracket. But it looks funny so I’ll leave it 😆

                                #581431
                                EricTheCarGuy 1EricTheCarGuy
                                Keymaster

                                  TTY bolts cannot be reused. I briefly touch on how to use a degree tool here.

                                  Keep us posted.

                                  #584985
                                  Damien HillDamien Hill
                                  Participant

                                    OK – An update for those interested. After having stripped the Subaru engine down I have now finished the re build. I removed all the valves and had both heads skimmed. Once they came back they looked pretty nice.. Anyway I assembled those with new valve seals, cleaned up the valves and lapped them in. I ended up buying brand new head bolts to save the risk of breaking the old ones, so the heads bolted up nicely with the new three layer gaskets. (Definitely much more durable compared to the old gaskets). Obviously I also replaced the cam seals, crank seal etc. New waterpump & Cambelt – (FYI: If you buy a Gates brand Timing belt, they give you marks on it to help you line it up. Very useful for the DOHC engine as there are about 5 marks to line up overall, and there is no way to get it wrong) Then after that it was basically do the sump gasket and small things like that, and throw it back in the car. I got around to starting it the other night and have been driving it around the pass few days with no overheating. I can call this case closed!!

                                    I have attached some pictures below for future reference:

                                    This is how the old gaskets looked when I first removed the heads

                                    I actually came across this, and the flexplate had cracked around the bolt holes, this ended up being the knocking noise I could hear.

                                    My valve storage, didn’t fancy dropping them everywhere…

                                    FYI: Leave the torque converter behind as it’s a time consuming process to get it back in…

                                    Preeeeeeety heads 😀

                                    Unfortunately in this photo I had moved the timing marks, so cannot point out the marks they give you on the belt

                                    Closer shot

                                    Thanks for all the great help!

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