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Bill.
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- May 10, 2014 at 11:25 am #599784
I bought a 1996 Plymouth Neon SOHC about a month ago. Since then, I’ve been trying to do some maintenance including spark plugs, oil, air filter, etc. There is a number of things going wrong with my engine I think. I’m fairly sure than the rear main seal is leaking as is common with plymouth engines (bottom of engine covered in oil). Not only that but when I changed the spark plugs, one of them was completely drenched in oil from the threads down. I’m not sure if this means the rings for that particular cylinder are leaking or what. Additionally with 133k miles, I don’t think the timing belt has ever been changed. Should I wait for bad things to happen to the engine then replace it, or should I change the timing belt, drop new rings in, and stick a new rear main seal in? I understand that rebuilding an engine is no small feat and if I put an engine in I would just buy a junkyard engine. I’ll also note that there is no smoke coming from the tailpipe nor is there any indication of a misfire, no mil, and the car runs fine. I may just be a little too picky but I just wanted to get other opinions. Thanks in advance.
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- May 10, 2014 at 11:49 am #599786
ok hold on a sec bud, dont worry about piston rings just yet!
first question is the engine burning oil? if you had a leak too that extent that your piston rings and oil control rings where letting that much oil buy i would suspect the engine is burning oil badly, and that you possibly have lost some compression on that cylinder as well, too be soaked in oil so much the threads are soaked in it, typically when its really bad oil burn the plugs ground and center electrode are fould with cruddy black tarry stuff, light oil burn may leave some white residue on the plugs electrodes and since you say there is no smoke coming from the tail pipe and that one of your plugs are that wet with oil it leads me too suspect something ells.
it may be a leaky rocker cover gasket! though it is single over head cam, i believe your spark plugs bolt into the top of the engine right on top of the cylinder head, i have worked on a few of the chrysler engines and the rocker covers sometimes like too leak oil i have noticed, and i have also noticed sometimes when these rocker covers leak they leak into the vallies where the spark plugs lay soaking them in oil and it will be a little bit above the hexed part where your socket fits, down the threads and all over the spark plug… if its leaking bad enough it could leak all over your engine and run down the bottom. check the rocker cover gasket that’s my recommendation look at where the rocker cover meets the head and see if its wet with oil or running down the side… that may be your issue, and it may mean as simple as changing a rocker cover gasket.
and as far as the timing belt goes, don’t know much about plymoth or Chryslers recommendations for timing belt change intervals, but if you think you can do it go for it, that is if my diagnosis is correct about the leaky rocker covers.
also this could lend a hand.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/finding-and-fixing-leaks?start=1#EngineOilMay 10, 2014 at 5:08 pm #599833Do a compression test. sounds like an engine swap is needed.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-performance-issues?start=7#CompressionTesting
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/etcg1?video=know-when-to-quit-etcg1
May 10, 2014 at 7:04 pm #599837College man, i am not trying too sound like a know it all but if oil is going past the piston rings this bad would there not be burning oil, would he have drivability issues he would be experiencing as a result of a loss of compression in that cylinder? as he stated he is experiencing neither of these issues…
i forgot to mentune do a compression test too make sure but it really doesn’t sound like shot piston rings or oil control rings, sounds like a leaky rocker cover gasket with the spark plug tube seals around the spark plug holes which would be a cheep and easy fix which could also enplane the leaky oil all over the engine as i have seen rocker cover gaskets myself leak bad enough, in fact i worked on a Cristler PT cruiser with a similar issue and it turned out too be the rocker cover gasket with those spark plug tube ring seals, some of the plugs where soaked in oil
i could be wrong though but the spark plugs are located on the top of the head and little tube ring seals in the rocker cover gasket or “valve pan gasket.” and i also found these, however also some of them are back and forth between shot rings and leaky rocker covers but lots of links indicate pattern failure.
https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20120422073850AAnPivg
very similar engine spark plugs just offset slightly beacuse its SOHC not DOHC seems too be a common issue as once again i have experienced this myself on a PT cruiser.
[video]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxrtZ44_bqw[/video]here are a few more links that say its pretty much a pattern failure for this car.
http://repairpal.com/failure-in-spark-plug-tube-seals-may-cause-misfire-and-poor-fuel-economy-220
http://chronoscender.freeservers.com/tubeseals/tubeseal.html
i mean i could be wrong if the compression test says shot piston rings replace the engine depending on how easy the main seal is same thing there don’t waste your time but if the rear main seal is a easy fix i say replace that rather than get a new engine, don’t waste time rebuilding engines these days its not worth it, swap it with a re built or a known good engine from a wrecked car or something. but some of these even say it causes oil leaks so bad it causes poor fuel economy and missfires so even if the engine had drivability issues i would even still say check the rocker cover gasket with spark plug tube seals.
May 10, 2014 at 7:11 pm #599838I would not worry to bad I would go with what 13aceofspades13. I have worked on a lot of these engines and almost always it is a rocker cover gasket and maybe a rear seal but most of the time the rocker cover gasket will stop most of the oil problem. I would check there first.
May 10, 2014 at 7:18 pm #599839don’t wait on the timing belt if there is no record of it being replaced. replace it this will ensure a lot more miles out of the engine far as the belt is concerned.
May 10, 2014 at 8:29 pm #599845I’m not exactly sure what a rocker cover gasket is. It sounds something I should look into but the only thing that concerns me is the fact that the plug in question was covered in oil from the threads down. Basically when you pull the plug wire off the plug there is no oil but when you pull the plug there is oil. But I don’t think I’m burning oil because there is no blue smoke or oil smell coming from the exhaust.
May 10, 2014 at 8:48 pm #599854it might be just enough oil in there where its getting on the threads and covering the lower section of the spark plug but not covering the entire plug and its boot… if it starts covering the boots that is where its getting really bad.
the rocker cover is also called the valve cover, i have even heard it called a valve pan, most new engines these days they are made of plastic sometimes metal, they are made of plastic on my car, you should have one single rocker cover it sits right on top of the engine should be black, and bolts down onto the head too cover the top of the engine, protecting it from the elements sealing out water and dirt and dust, and keeping oil from getting on the outside…. since your gasket is probaby failing, it is not doing its job and oil is well going on the outside of your engine.
the Dodge neon is pretty much the SAME thing
part 1
[video]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6AFbfLOjpk[/video]part 2
[video]http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDR5vWIhVMs[/video]he is doing the replacement procedure of the common failed part, if you are up for the challenge this is the gasket you need too replace and in order too do that you need too un bolt the rocker cover.
my spark plugs on my car are located on the sides of the cylinder heads, but the engine i have is also noted for leaky rocker covers so bad in fact that some cars have caught fire for oil leaking onto the exhaust! thats for the older versons of my cars engine anyway, so rocker cover gaskets wearing out is very common on most every vehicle after high miles and cars of your cars age as the gasket gets brittle and cant seal anymore and leak…
hope this helps 🙂
May 10, 2014 at 8:57 pm #599857see this is what you probably need, see only 21 bucks man… but just make sure and check your compression.
May 10, 2014 at 9:44 pm #599863It sounds to me like the seal around the spark plug tube is leaking oil into the tube. When you removed the plugs the oil inside ran on to the threads. A new valve cover gasket should solve that problem as well as a possible external oil leak.
If the oil still leaks you might have to clean the oil soaked area and run the engine to pinpoint the oil leak location. Some of the older Neons leaked oil from the head gasket as well as the crankshaft position sensor.
Before you replace the timing belt I would suggest that if it is a head gasket leak you tackle both at the same time.
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