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Recently I started experiencing an issue with my the brakes on my 1996 Honda Accord EX (2.2 VTEC). As I press on the brake pedal, it is firm at first, but begins to loose pressure as I slow down. When I press down on the pedal again, its firm, but begins slowly sink again. When I sit at stop lights, I loose pressure after a few seconds, causing me to creep forward.
Looking online I found that the common problem was my master cylinder going out. There was no loss of brake fluid from the reservoir. Shortly after which I installed one I picked up from the local O’Reilly’s. I installed it, was well as a new brake line which wouldn’t break loose on the master cylinder.
I bled the brakes, and found out both of the bleeder valves on the front calipers were rusted shut, so I bled them from the brake lines.
This worked for all of two days…
I took it to the local Honda dealer for them to tell me I needed new rotors on the front and three out of the four pads were apparently “seized to the rotors” as the tech told me. He said he fixed it, then took it for a test drive and said everything was fine…only for me to get into the car and find the problem wasn’t fixed, $124 later Anyways, any suggestions on solving this?
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A common issue on Hondas of this era is for the brake lines to rust… The brake lines under the car are under a plastic cover and they do rust out faster than some other Japanese made cars… First it starts as seepage, then a drip, then a noticeable leak…
The start of this is the loss of brake pressure, but you can’t really find a leak… It is commonly misdiagnosed as a bad master cylinder…
Check under the car for any ‘wet’ brake lines…As stated, you may have to remove the plastic cover…
JMHO
-Karl
I have checked for wet brake lines, and I am also not loosing a bit of brake fluid (I added this into the original post)
So you removed the plastic cover?
What I am talking about is seepage… It may or may not drip, but allow air in and show some wetness…
-Karl
Yup… do check it…
This can drive some techs crazy, till they remove the plastic and see that there is a rusty line(s)… That plastic holds the salt/snow/slush right on the brake lines during harsh driving conditions…
Seen guys replace everything in the system before they checked the lines…
As stated, it still holds “some” pressure but will allow more air in than fluid out… it will be wet…
Also, when it drips (which it may not very much), it stays in the plastic rail… So you never see a puddle, and it will blow out when you drive it…
If you find it, it should be obvious…
Good luck..
-Karl
Honestly, I haven’t personally seen too many issues with the brake lines on those vehicles, but it’s certainly worth checking. There are all kinds of caliper issues however, and by the sound of it, you’ve had some issues there due to corrosion. If the pads can’t move freely in the caliper it can cause strange braking issues. I’d recommend you pull the wheels and have a good look at the brakes. Even better if you take them apart and inspect them. Here’s a video on how to do that.
More information on brake issues here.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Hey guys,
Thanks for the help. Sorry for reviving an older thread, but over the weekend I got the chance to really get into this.
I checked the back wheels first. I took the calipers off, checked pads, regressed everything, and made sure nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Nothing did.
I then checked all the lines, I couldn’t see any evidence of even a remote brake leak anywhere. I couldn’t get the bolts off for the channel between the front and back, but it was slotted we’ll enough I could get a good look at the lines, the seemed like they may have to be replaced in a few years, but nothing that I believe would be causing a problem.
Then I went to try to wrestle with the bleeder valves. After a torch, lots of PB blaster (not at the same time :P) and several tools that claim to get stripped screws out..one of the bleeder valves broke. After many curse words, I decided to go buy a couple new calipers for the front.
All I can say now is after installing them, and bleeding the whole system we’ll…I am still having issues, but it is less apparent..but it’s still there and annoying.
On my last trip to Oreillys for brake fluid, one of the people I usually talked to about Honda issues had arrived. He was talking to his friend and I explained to them what was going on. The employees friend said he has been chasing the same problem, and when it gets hot out, the pedal sinks, in the winter it doesn’t.
That got me thinking…it doesn’t sink as fast when it is cold out. And I believe I started to have this issue in the spring..not sure if that gives any insight on potential problems, but this is driving me crazy.
Long story short:
I replaced the front calipers.
Bled the whole system
Checked back disk brakes – looked good
Check lines, nothing looked bad
The problem may be somewhat temperature relatedThanks guys
Well, for starters, though it’s late due, you should have not replaced MC, only replaced the piston seals. It’s an inexpensive overhaul kit, every parts store has it.
Next, I had TWo, yes, TWO Mitsubishi “new” clutch MCs from OR’s go leaking in several days after install. That’s OR’s quality.
Now, I have main Q for you. You do NOT have full metal line going all the way to the caliper, right? You do have short rubberized hose runs from hydraulic line to the caliper itself?
Thing is, those runs eventually expand under pressure. Honda crowd here will say yey or neigh, but as an ex Silverado owner, I know that GM rubber hoses do so, and market is crowded with coil re-enforced replacements for them.
Under circumstance you had everything else replaced with quality parts – that’s your culprits.
Oh, and ad hoc. GOOD vice grips are best to remove those bleeder screws.I am convinced it is not a problem with the MC. Right after installing it, there was literally NO change what so ever, it didn’t get any better, it didn’t get any worse.
I had originally started with a combination wrench, which stripped, then I used heat, and eventually a good pair of vice-grips, they just stripped the head..I looked all over the internet for ideas, but had no luck with any of them.
Also, I do have the short hoses running from the line into the calipers, they look in good shape, I believe they may have been changed recently.
I do have one other thing to throw out… There have been cases of where an exhaust pipe gets too close to a brake line and causes the fluid to heat up and it causes the brakes to go squishy at certain times.. I.E. when going slow and stopped, less so a higher speed when the lines cool down…
-Karl
[quote=”ToyotaKarl” post=116021]I do have one other thing to throw out… There have been cases of where an exhaust pipe gets too close to a brake line and causes the fluid to heat up and it causes the brakes to go squishy at certain times.. I.E. when going slow and stopped, less so a higher speed when the lines cool down…
-Karl[/quote]
Thats an interesting idea…any suggestions on what a possible solution may be?
The problem is caused by an exhaust pipe that might have been specially bent (or bent in a shop) instead of using a factory exhaust pipe (designed for that particular car)…
The fix is to get the exhaust pipe further from the brake line… (use OEM)… I would get a look at your exhaust and see how close it gets to the lines…If yours was bent by a muffler shop, perhaps….
It is a far outside chance, but figured it was worth mentioning at this point.
-Karl
I’ll first say that heating brake bleeder valves is not a good idea. Your heating fluid in an enclosed space sealed by rubber. You can cause the fluid to expand rapidly and leak or ruin the rubber seals in the caliper. If you have a problem with the bleeder, bleed it at the line and forget about the bleeder. I covered that in the article I posted for you which I’ll post again here.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-brake-problems
In that article you will also find a video on how to deal with a spongy brake pedal you might find informative.
I also say that I’ve had issues with some brake pads causing issues with spongy pedals. Rusty shims can also cause a spongy brake pedal feel. These are things I also touch on in the article.
As for the exhaust theory, I don’t put any stock in that. To my knowledge there are no brake lines anywhere near the exhaust on that vehicle. That are run with the fuel lines near the outer part of the body.
I personally think you have a master cylinder problem. If the spongy brake technique works I would say it’s a certainty. Not all parts are created equal, especially when it comes to import parts.
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