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One of the reasons I bought this Van was that it had complete new brakes (Feb 2015). I have the receipts and it was complete, new rotors, pads and Master cylinder. All parts are non OEM. I bought it August 1 and we were in the midst of a hot dry Summer, highs 30 plus Celsius lows 20 (90/95F/70F). The brakes worked great but recently as the temp has gone down with fall I have a problem that is strange. When cold the pedal is soft and if I wanted to press it hard it would go to the floor. I however have eased up on the pedal and the brakes hold and work well in stop and go traffic. Very soon after when it is warm and I have driven a couple of miles the pedal is normal and is not fading. The Master cyl is full of fluid and I assume that means no leaks. Do I need to bleed air from system ? Could it be moisture ? I have heard occasionally a scraping sound from the rear brakes like a pad is rubbing on the rotor ? This sound is on and off like it is rubbing on one side then not rubbing ? noise______noise______noise.
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I thought of that too, only if it was that simple would the brakes not be bad all the time ? Again after warming up the brakes are perfect and the pedal bleed is slow when cold (pedal doesn’t go to floor as soon as you depress it) and the brakes work well enough that I am driving it daily. Maybe this scraping sound I hear is a caliper piston problem ? The scraping noise goes away when warm as well. Maybe I have a vacuum leak to the Booster ?
I agree first thing would be to bleed the brakes.
If your doing it yourself remember to disconnect the vacuum line at master cylinder first.
Start at back right then back left then front right, then finally front left.
You will need someone with you to do it.I ran into a neighbor who worked for many years as a brake mechanic. When I told him about my problem he said “soft pedal all the time-bleed them” “if the pedal gets hard pumping it with engine off-problem is in Master Cylinder” I suspected the Master Cylinder just because it is non OEM (and I have heard alot about problems with non OEM). The Honda Master is $260 cad and the non OEM is $90. I do have the receipt for the failed unit and it is under warranty. Seems a lot of problems can be avoided using OEM parts, I am just a little taken back by the prices, a OEM PCV is $44 cad and a jobber if 9 bucks?? When I was a Teen and I drove Ford’s, Chev’s and AMC we never thought about OEM parts.
When the master cylinder was replaced, did they bleed it before installing it? If unknown, then watch Eric’s vids on that. There is definitely a procedure for this. Is the brake fluid still clear enough to see through? If it looks like strong coffee or syrup, then its contaminated with lots of moisture, and the dark color is actually rust from the inside of the hard steel lines. The cure there is a total system brake fluid flush, which is straight forward and easy to get right, again check vids on that.
If you didn’t do the work, another mechanic may not have mounted the rear pads in with the correct steps. Get some silicone brake grease and lube the caliper guide pins. My niece has a sweet element that was using a ton of fuel and not accelerating very well. Turns out all 4 calipers had one stuck guide pin each. That was a cheap repair that yielded great results.[quote=”peshewa” post=148797]When the master cylinder was replaced, did they bleed it before installing it? If unknown, then watch Eric’s vids on that. There is definitely a procedure for this. Is the brake fluid still clear enough to see through? If it looks like strong coffee or syrup, then its contaminated with lots of moisture, and the dark color is actually rust from the inside of the hard steel lines. The cure there is a total system brake fluid flush, which is straight forward and easy to get right, again check vids on that.
If you didn’t do the work, another mechanic may not have mounted the rear pads in with the correct steps. Get some silicone brake grease and lube the caliper guide pins. My niece has a sweet element that was using a ton of fuel and not accelerating very well. Turns out all 4 calipers had one stuck guide pin each. That was a cheap repair that yielded great results.[/quote]Thanks for the great info !Honda’s do this sometimes. This is what I do to cure it.
If the bleeding doesn’t work, give this a try. Keep us posted on how things turn out for you.
[quote=”EricTheCarGuy” post=148859]Honda’s do this sometimes. This is what I do to cure it.
If the bleeding doesn’t work, give this a try. Keep us posted on how things turn out for you.[/quote]
Can I bleed the Master or does it need to be at the 4 wheels ? Still confused why it was fine for first 2 months I drove it so why this now ? Can’t help but think this non OEM Master could be toast. After the weekend ( Canada Thanksgiving) I am going to look at the Brake fluid and see what it looks like.
This slamming the brakes on thing, how does that work with ABS ?
This reminded me of something from my first car. It was a 66 Chevy II and I was doing doughnuts in the gravel parking lot. When I drove it on blacktop it had effected the toe in and made a screeching noise going over any painted lines on the road. I fixed it by going back to the gravel and doing doughnuts in reverse !
Update: Help still needed,
I found a article about how to test if Master Cylinder or Booster have failed. Pumping up the brakes with engine off gets pedal firm and I can drive with no issue. If you pump the brakes til firm and hold pedal while starting the pedal sinks. The article said this was Master Cylinder failure, so I got a replacement from the parts store on warranty. I got a mechanic to do the re/re and advised him what I had found out. When I got it back he said it was not the Master it was air in the lines and he had bled it. So I drove it and the pedal was mushy and when coming to a stop the engine almost stalls. If I pump the pedal before starting I have perfect brakes and no major idle issue (it does have a slight rough idle and I feel this is due to it needing a good tune up plugs/wires/cap/rotor and PCV-all those parts look old). So after spending 50$, It was the same as it was before he bled them.
I did try the “one way to deal with a spongy brake pedal” as Eric suggests in his video-no change, but I did notice the ABS did not engage. Turning the ignition to the point where all the idiot lights come on on the dash display, I have wondered why the ABS and the Airbag indicators don’t illuminate.
The fluid in the Master is right at max fill line, no bubbles/clear.
I am taking it to another Mechanic next week, should I take the New Master ? ( I took it back but have the option to get again).
Edit: I just found that the pedal does sink after pumping it up before starting and after starting. I am not going back to the guy who bled the brakes as he didn’t top off the brake fluid. Again if I pump up the pedal-start and go it is fine no stopping issues/perfect pedal feel (not soft nor really hard), runs great. If I don’t pump them up I have a mushy pedal and it nearly stalls when braking.
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