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The other day I was sitting at a stop light, and when the light turned green, I was about to engage the clutch and the engine just died. I thought I had stalled the engine. Tried starting it, cranked fine, but engine just would not get going.
I bought this car in 2001 and have put over 235K miles on it myself. In that time this is only the 2nd time ever that the car has died out on the road and I had to get it towed. First time was in 2006 and it was the ignition harness that had fried.
I have checked just about all I can think of. Fuel pump works. Fuel is getting into all cylinders. All plug wires have spark as of today. I did have 1 dead plug wire after I got the car home Sunday, which I replaced today. So all plug wires have spark. Spark plugs look normal with 13K miles on them. Ignition coil has spark, strong spark. Have run through all the tests of all the sensors in the distributor, the ignition harness, the coil, the igniter, everything checks out. Timing belt is fully intact and engine remains in perfect time. Compression tests are good at 180-190 PSI across the board (not bad for 324K mile engine!).
There are no trouble codes stored in the ECU. Another odd thing is the battery, which is 4 1/2 years old. It will no longer crank the car unless I have jumper cables going over to my wife’s car with the engine running, yet the battery still reads 12.0 volts. However it was cranking the car Sunday evening, but the engine still wouldn’t start. Could there be some issue with the battery?
At this point the only thing left I can think of is fuel pressure and the ECU itself. All cylinders are getting some amount of fuel (all spark plugs smelled of fuel after several times cranking), but I don’t know yet whether proper fuel pressure is getting to the fuel rail.
I have owned this car nearly 12 years and have performed 100% of all mechanic work on it myself with my trusty Helms factory repair manual. I have to figure this out!
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Problem – No start/ No crank
Check the Obvious
Battery conditionSuspect Area(s)
Possible clutch interlock switch? (since this was the last known event to occur before engine responsiveness)
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Additional Reccomendations[/u]
The majority of nostart/no cranks will be electrical in nature; therefore, it is imperative to pull the starting schematic and determine what the major players are. We have already identified the battery and the clutch interlock, but there are many other devices to consider. Attached is the starting schematic for your vehicle i got from bbbind.com. As with any no start/no crank the goal is to get 12volts (B+) to the “S” terminal of your starting solenoid with the key in “START.” If this is not the case, then you’ll have to refer to the attached starting schematic and dive right in to electrical diagnosis. IF you do get “S” terminal power, then you can conclude that the issue is after the starter solenoid. (try jumping the “B” and “M” terminals of the starter solenoid to see if the starter will engage)When the car first died it would crank fine, and it also cranks fine when connected to another car with jumper cables. The engine just won’t start. This is a crank/no start problem. However I’m getting the battery checked today to be sure.
Problem – Crank/No-Start
You have already addressed the most probable causes being fuel pressure, spark and compression.
One thing you might want to check is fuel volume. It is possible to have correct fuel pressure over given time; however, if you do no have the proper fuel flow your engine will idle and die.
Attached is the ignition schematic for your vehicle which seems pretty straight forward. You have several sensors that play an integral part in your keeping your vehicle running, which may or may not throw a code (since your car is prior 1996 OBDII standards) The CKP sensor is vital.
I ran through the checks for all those sensors as shown in the factory service manual, and they all checked out okay. The tests were basically just checking for continuity across the sensors at the wiring harness plug on the outside of the distributor cap. All came back fine.
I got a fuel pressure testing kit today and will be checking it this evening. Also I took my battery in to get checked, and it indicated 195 CCA at 12.4 volts. However I’m guessing it’s not fully charged as it will not turn over my starter at the moment. I believe one of Eric’s videos said the battery needs to be fully charged in order to test it? So would the 195 CCA indicate the battery is bad or is it not possible to know in its current state?
You don’t think the low CCA is just from cranking the starter over LOTS of times since the engine quit on Sunday, and also the process of getting towed (pulled behind another vehicle) Sunday evening with my parking lights and flashers on, plus brake lights?
You have already stated that the car will not start without
a jump. you just had the battery load tested. The voltage part
of the battery is good.But the work side CCA is done. The average
life of a battery is 4 years.A battery also has whats called a AH
rating (amp hour rating)which means the battery can with stand lets
say a 4 hrs with the lights on and engine off. so with flasher and brake
lights which is nothing. The battery should be replaced.Since the car died while running, i would also check the charging system… it might not be just the battery alone.
Put in a brand new 500 CCA battery today. Car cranks strong on its own now. But still no start. Checked fuel pressure, it’s spot on at 48 PSI.
I seriously do not get this. Spark at all 4 plugs, spark at the coil (obviously), fuel pressure, good battery, good PGM-FI main relay. I went back through all the tests listed in the FSM for when the engine will not start. Did the ECU checks, fuel components, sensors. Everything checks out. The only thing I haven’t done is run the tests on the sensors at the actual ECU (checking for opens or shorts between the ECU and the sensors) simply because, well, nobody has the OEM test harness, and I don’t have multimeter leads that are thin/sharp enough to back-probe the wire harness.
Unfortunately I can’t seem to locate a good Integra P72 ECU locally to try out. Checked local CL and Facebook, nobody seems to have one.
Have now dropped over $200 on this car (for parts that were bad anyway) but am seriously frustrated that I can’t figure this out.
Some other ideas to check could be fuel injectors (stethoscope is easiest, injector balance test if you have the expensive equipment) and intake/exhaust problems.
q: any possibility of fuel contamination..?
Also, you can eliminate any fuel issue by using the following technique (if the car still doesn’t start, then you know it’s not a fuel issue)
Starting fluid might can also be used as a diagnostic; if the car wants to start w/ the starting fluid, then you know you have a fuel or fuel delivery problem.
Thanks. Car cranks over so it’s not the clutch interlock. Starter won’t even work if the clutch pedal is not depressed.
I’m trying to source another ECU and/or distributor locally to see if I can swap them out and see what happens.
I’m thinking it’s flooded. This is a common problem on Hondas. Try holding your foot to the floor as you crank the engine. Also pull the plugs. If they’re wet then allow plenty of time for the cylinders to dry out and you might consider replacing the plugs. Honda’s don’t like aftermarket ignition parts so if you have aftermarket ignition parts you might consider changing them out for OE. I don’t think it has anything to do with the fuel delivery or injectors as Honda’s rarely have a problem there. Another possibility is a problem with the ignition switch. This is also a common problem on Honda’s and can cause an intermittent stall and no start condition. You don’t need to replace the entire switch just the electrical portion. Test it in your situation try holding the key toward the ‘crank’ position after you attempt to start it. If it stays running when you hold the key then defiantly replace the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Check to see if it’s flooded first. As for the cause of the flooding it might be the coolant temp sensor. You might want to check it’s resistance values to see if they’re in spec. Also you might try starting it with the coolant temp sensor unplugged. If it starts then you might be onto something. Keep us posted.
Just a couple of ideas:
You may have spark but possibly at the wrong time, I cant say I have ever seen this on an integra but ya never know.
You may have the initial prime from the fuel pump but possibly not enough volume
Does the check engine light come on when the key is first turned on? If not then that may indicate an ecu issue.
As with all odd problems check every fuse in the car, ya never know.
The cat converter may be plugged but chances are you would have noticed some other type of driveability issue.
First try as eric said to clear a possible flooded engine situation and go from there. You will figure it out!!
Thanks Eric and everyone else for all the suggestions. The good news is that IT RUNS! :woohoo: After 10 days of sitting lifeless. I ordered a brand new Cardone Select distributor with everything complete, including lifetime warranty, on Monday, and just got it today. Swapped it out in about 15 minutes and the car fired up INSTANTLY! I’m talking the fastest I’ve ever heard a car start when turning the key. Starter barely made one revolution and it was running. WOOHOO!!
I set the distributor ignition timing roughly to where the old one was set, and then drove it around for 15 minutes or so to get it warmed up. Came back, jumped the service connector, hooked up the timing light and dialed in the timing to 18° BTDC (spec is 14-18, I like to run it towards the advanced end), and the car was idling rock solid at 750 RPM.
So $400 later I’m back on the road. The battery was old and needed replacing anyway, but I don’t think I’ve EVER seen a plug wire with no continuity whatsoever. Somehow the distributor going out could have taken a plug wire out with it perhaps? Who knows. I’m just thrilled to have it going again.
Original distributor lasted 324,000 miles. I guess that was a pretty good run. B)
*edit* Eric I did try most of the stuff you mentioned, including checking every single fuse, and checking the ignition switch. My ignition switch actually did fry itself almost 7 years ago. Car died while driving, got it towed, got a new switch and harness overnighted and installed it in the parking lot of the repair shop where it was sitting, and was on my way. I noticed then that nothing normally powered up with the key in the On position would work (wipers, windows), but that wasn’t the case this time.
Thanks again for everyone’s help. Eric I love your videos. 😉
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