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Hello,
Hope everyone’s doing well. Please let me know if you might have any ideas/suggestions about this:
I have a 1993 Honda Civic DX manual transmission with around 152k miles on it.
Over the last few days, it has died while driving on the road. When this happens, the oil and battery lights (and occasionally, the check engine light) comes on. Once I turn the key to the off position and restart the car, it starts up ok. Today it died while on the freeway :ohmy: and after starting up, died twice, each time after the car had run for only a few minutes. I managed to drive it home.Recent history: I changed the ignition coil (noname brand) and the distributor cap/rotor (OEM) back in November after it had problems starting. Spark plugs/wires were changed 2 years (about 12k miles) ago.
Ideas:
– When searching ETCG I noticed Eric’s video about Honda ignition switch problems causing stalls, so I tried jiggling the keys while the car was running but nothing happened.– Right now my only idea is to recreate the problem while driving, then hope the CEL comes on so that I can try to get the code (apparently with my model the CEL code is lost once the engine is turned off.)
Does anyone else have any other suggestions? The repairman suggested replacing the distributor but I’d prefer to fully understand the problem before replacing parts. Plus I’m a little skeptical – could the distributor fail so badly that it would require ignition be turned off before working again?
Thanks for any ideas,
Jeff
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Why did the mechanic think it was the distributor? It could also be fuel flow as well. Everything you listed a possibility and you will need to eliminate them.
sounds ignition related or possible main relay.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
Managed to get the CEL code:
15 – ignition output signal
I’m going to try following the civic service manual flowchart and see how that goes. I’ll also check that no-start faq as well, thanks.
1) The civic service manual flowchart told me to check the distributor voltage on the 2pin connector, which looked ok. It then referred to a test harness which I don’t have, so that’s as far as I got there.
2) Following Eric’s no spark diagnosis video :
I see :
* no spark coming out of the coil spring when I put a screwdriver close to it.
* The negative terminal of the coil does show switching voltage when I attempt to start.The problem with all these observations is that they are intermittent – the problem seems to happen more often when the engine gets warm and then goes away after I let it sit for a while.
Anyway, my guess is leaning toward a bad coil (which is only 4 months old, but an aftermarket part.)
Does anyone have any ideas of things I should check before ordering the OEM coil?
If the igniter is switching and no spark at the coil.
Coil would be suspect. Pick up an OE coil. is the distributor
OE or aftermarket?Thanks college man for your advice.
The entire distributor was replaced by a local repair shop about 20k miles ago, I’m 95% sure it’s aftermarket. (I wish I’d known enough at the time to only have them replace the coil.)
Anyway, from the FAQ it sounds like aftermarket distributors don’t work well with Hondas so I was thinking about replacing not only the coil ($95) but maybe the ignitor ($90) and maybe even the distributor housing ($110) with OE parts. Seems like they don’t sell the entire OE distributor anymore.
FYI, testing the coil as mentioned in the service manual,
1. primary resistance (between + and – terminals): 0.9-1.0 ohms [spec is 0.6-0.8 ohms]
2. secondary resistance (between spring and + terminal): 16.8kohms [spec is 13.2 – 19.8 kohms]so #1 looks out of spec.
[quote=”goblazers” post=92789]FYI, testing the coil as mentioned in the service manual,
1. primary resistance (between + and – terminals): 0.9-1.0 ohms [spec is 0.6-0.8 ohms]
2. secondary resistance (between spring and + terminal): 16.8kohms [spec is 13.2 – 19.8 kohms]so #1 looks out of spec.[/quote]
Checking ignition coil resistance is useless and I don’t recommend it as a form of diagnosis. I have this on the authority of ignition coil engineers, so I think that’s a good source. The reason is that coils will fail under load and still test good. It’s only a coil with a catastrophic failure that will show up on a resistance check. That said, I believe he mentioned that he had replaced the ignition coil already.
To the original poster. The aftermarket distributor is a prime suspect as you pointed out. Thank you for reading the FAQ on that. However based on your description I would say the ignition switch is also a likely suspect. Considering that the electrical portion of the ignition switch is less expensive than a proper distributor, you might start there. That said, the code 15 points to the distributor.
It’s a tough call if I’m honest but I might start with the ignition switch. It is a known problem that causes the exact symptom you describe and it hasn’t been replaced yet. Intermittent problems are difficult to track down. Sometimes you just have to go on your best guess.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.
Thanks Eric for your feedback on coil failure and resistance.
The car now will not start at all. (I’ve updated the subject line)
Since I last posted, I was able to get the car to die by running the engine at ~3000 rpm while at neutral for a minute or so. The CEL came on and showed code 15 when checked. I didn’t see spark on spark plug #1. Initially I did see a spark at the coil. But after repeating this experiment a couple of times (run engine until the problem occurs) I did not see spark at the plug or the coil and now the car will not start at all.
Since the aftermarket coil was under warranty, I got a new one and tried it out – still no start, and no spark at the plug. Starting to wonder if the cylinders are now flooded.
Other details / thoughts:
* measured 12v at the distributor blk/yel wire (the 2 pin one)
* Related threads have suggested checking the ground connection on the thermostat, so I’ll check that.
* I do hear fuel pump run for a few seconds when turn the key to (II), that rules out main relay right?
* Will take the ignitor control module to Autozone to check. I did see switching voltage on the (-) coil terminal but that was with a multimeter, not a test light.
The ground on the thermostat is for the injectors not the ignition. If you want to know if it’s the coil or igniter that’s causing the no spark, you can use this video.
That said, if the distributor is not putting out a cam or crank signal it won’t really matter because the igniter is not being told to fire the coil.
As I’ve said, aftermarket distributors for Hondas are known problems and have been known to cause no start issues as well as other performance problems.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Checking the (-) terminal of the ignition coil while cranking the engine doesn’t show switching voltage anymore – the voltage seems to stay around 10-12v. From the “No Spark Diagnosis” video that suggests the igniter control module (ICM) is bad.
Today I took the ICM to Autozone and it failed their test.
I’ve already ordered a new OE coil and ICM so am hoping that when those arrive the car will be moving again.
If that doesn’t work, I’ll have to consider the cam/crank/tdc sensors from the distributor.
Good news and bad news:
Good news is that with the new igniter and coil, the car now starts. I believe the problem was the igniter.
Bad news is that the engine again seemed to momentarily lose power when I applied gas to go up a hill – same as before – although it didn’t die this time.
Is it possible that when the engine momentarily stalled that it stressed the old igniter to the point it failed?
Anyway I guess I need to look into this engine problem further. Don’t think it’s a misfire, it seems to be a bigger ‘jolt’.
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