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So, here we go – Eric’s all-time FAVORITE question: 🙂
I’ve done the following but the stinkin’ car will not start!So I got the car as a gift – it was not starting
Issues: loads of oil in 3 of the 4 plug wells, crank no start
1. Replaced plugs (Autolite at first, now NGK), wires (some off-brand junk…probably need to get NGK), valve cover gasket (complete kit – even the tube seals) with Fel-Pro
Got the car running but then after warm-up, it would sputter, then die when pressing the gas2. Replaced fuel filter
3. Replaced PCV Valve
4. Disassembled & cleaned throttle body (new Fel-Pro gasket on reassembly)
5. Disassembled & cleaned fast idle valve
6. flushed & burped coolant
7. checked compression and fuel pressure – both good
8. Replaced Distributor Cap, Rotor, and Ignition Coil (Beck/Arnley parts for all 3) – prior coil tested bad with ohm meter
9. Checked Main Relay – okay
10. Tried using carb cleaner in throttle – still no startI’ve noticed the cranking is not exactly rhythmic – it seems to be a little off.
Should I replace the fuel pressure regulator next? What is going wrong, here?
Any help is GREATLY appreciated!
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This is really starting to confirm my suspicions that your base timing is 180 degrees off. Before condemning the engine, check the base timing as I posted earlier or loosen/remove the rocker shafts so that all the valves are closed and re-do compression test. If compression goes up then that proves timing is off.
The rocker shaft is the shaft that goes through the middle of the rocker arms. On some heads you can loosen/remove them. I haven’t worked on a Honda 2.2L for a long time, so I can’t remember off hand if they are easily removable or not, but I think they are. They may not have to be removed entirely, just enough to close the valves.
I had the rocker assembly off a little while ago and forgot to leave the bolts in – had a heck of a time trying to get it back on the head – I’d like to avoid disassembling it again, if at all possible…
You may not have to take it all the way off. You just want the valves closed while the engine is cranking during the compression test. I also posted another way to check the timing using the distributor towers for reference in an earlier post. The bottom line is you need to rule out a timing problem before looking elsewhere. Please don’t take this the wrong way, I am not trying to be rude, I am trying to help, but you are going to have to do proper testing to fix the car. Avoiding an undesirable task will either prolong the problem or cause extra work along the way.
Oh I don’t take it that way – I’m sure you’re right, I just want to make sure there’s not another way to do it, especially since it seemed like you indicated you weren’t sure about the F22A1 motor (maybe it’s different?)
So – valve cover off, I rotate the motor – what should I be looking for to make sure it’s in-time?
Let’s say it’s out of time and maybe during the reassembly I just simply rotated the cam to get it in-line with the “up” up – could I have it out of time because of that? What is the appropriate procedure to get a motor’s sprockets where they need to be, after it appears they’ve skipped teeth?
First be sure timing is corect. if it is, check that valve lash adjust is corect too, and not too tight..Intake 0.26mm, exhaust 0.30mm.
[quote=”scubacamper” post=136680]So – valve cover off, I rotate the motor – what should I be looking for to make sure it’s in-time?
Let’s say it’s out of time and maybe during the reassembly I just simply rotated the cam to get it in-line with the “up” up – could I have it out of time because of that? What is the appropriate procedure to get a motor’s sprockets where they need to be, after it appears they’ve skipped teeth?[/quote]
First, put crankshaft at TDC and look at the position of the cam sprockets. If the crank and cam sprockets are where they are supposed to be, pop off the distributor cap and verify that the rotor is pointing in the direction of the #1 tower. If it is not directly pointing to the #1 tower, the timing is off. My suspicion is that the timing kit was installed with the engine at TDC on exhaust stroke instead of compression stroke.
If your timing was off by a tooth either way, the engine would try to fire but stall out and/or spit. With the timing 180 degrees off as I suspect, you would get no fire and very low compression (which correlates to your compression test). To correct the timing, simply remove the timing belt, rotate everything into correct position, make sure you are on correct piston stroke, re-install belt. It will help to remove spark plugs to relieve compression.
The reason I suggested repeating the compression test by loosening/removing the rockers was to validate that compression is good when the top end is closed. This would prove 2 things: 1) timing is off, and 2) no internal engine problem. Once the timing is corrected, you can repeat the compression test if you wish, just to show yourself that the compression is now better and relieve any fears.
Please keep us posted on your progress.
Ok so I took everything apart again to make sure it was all done correctly. I verified TDC for the crank by making sure the crank pulley’s mark lined up with the stationary mark on the block as well as lining up the white line on the flywheel with the point through the peephole.
After I did this, I looked at the cam pulley and it was also pointing up as it should. However, when I looked at the rotor, it was pointing to 4 instead of 1. Then I remembered a while back, I was fooling around with the distributor on the workbench and disassembled the “key” on it. I determined I must have reinstalled the key backwards, so I took it back off and reversed it. Now, everything is where it should be.
I put it all back together and….crank no start. grrr!
One thing I noticed though: The spark is still an orange color instead of white/blue. here are some things that I guess might be contributing:
the (Honda OEM) coil I used was a TC18A and my car calls for a TC19A – they both look identical, but I’m wondering if this might be causing an issue (?)
Also, the Honda OEM rotor was also from a slightly different F22A1 series – it’s the type that requires a fastener and not just a “push-on” application.
The igniter is an aftermarket igniter from O’Reilly.After all that, I decided to take another look to see if the computer is throwing any codes. I shorted the blue connector by the ECU and turned the key to “on”. The D4 light came on for a few moments then turned off, then began flashing consistently with no pauses – I stopped counting after it exceeded 100 flashes. I can’t find any information online as to what this means – can anyone help?
Another thing I noticed while checking for codes: When I turned the key to “on”, I heard the fuel pump engage. To test it’s consistency, I turned the key off and back on again several times. After about the 3rd or 4th time, I did not hear the pump. Could this be a faulty main relay, or did the pump not turn on because it had plenty of built-up pressure?
Thank you all very much for your help thus far, and for any suggestions you have going forward!
It is timed on exhaust instead of compression stroke. The timing is 180 degrees off. The distributor key isn’t going to make the valves close when they are open. You should put the distributor back the way it was, and re-time the engine on the correct stroke. Remember TDC occurs twice for each cam revolution, once for compression and again for exhaust. To make sure that the engine is on TDC compression, the intake and exhaust rockers for cyl 1 will move slightly when wiggled, because the valves should be closed. If there is load on the rocker then the valve is open, or partially, and it is not on TDC compression.
When I was putting things back together, I took a peek at the no.1 cyl with a telescopic camera and saw it was all the way up. Then I played with the no.1 rocker arms and there was some play in them. At that, I assumed it was at tdc compression. Did I miss something? Is there another way to double check?
No, that would indicate correct TDC on compression stroke. The distributor shaft key is slightly off center. If you look into the hole where it goes, you can see which direction offset it is. While it is possible to install it backwards, you would probably have had to force it in.
I just paid for the etcg video on this job and noticed that when I assembled everything, I aligned the rear balance shaft 180-degrees off…could this be my problem?
That shouldn’t cause a no start, you would just have a lot of vibration when running. Take the time to fix it. Check my previous post, I edited it regarding the distributor key. Make sure the engine is at TDC compression and that the distributor key is installed correctly, then install the distributor and look at where the rotor points. If it doesn’t point to #1 the timing is off.
ok so I’ve got the motor apart and I’m re-aligning everything. I have the rear balance shaft where it needs to be, replaced the front balance shaft seal (didn’t do this last time), lined everything up, verified TDC compression on 1 and see that my distributor is pointing to 4.
I will now put the distributor key back on the way it was before, as you suggested (thanks for clearing that up, btw).
Is there anything else I should do before putting it all back together?here is a video of my current status:
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