- This topic has 7 replies, 3 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Topic
-
Hello Internet. I am hoping some people here can shed some light on an issue I am experiencing. Let me relay the trail of evidence I have found thus far.
I have had this car for about a year and a half now. When I got it there was a CEL on, but that went away in around a month or two. The guy I bought it from said it was an evap code? Not totally sure. I didn’t think much of it as it started and ran fine and then it went away.
About a month later (about a year ago from now) I went to start it and and fired but died. It had done this a few times on me, so I tried again. It sputtered but died even faster this time. I tried again. It just cranked an cranked. I went under the hood and found copious amounts of oil in the spark plug wells! At the time, A co worker was with me and suggested the spark plugs were not sealing properly. So, we went out, bought a set of plugs (NGKs) and put them in. Fired right up! Great.
Drove it for a year no issues.
Then about a month ago, I started it up, it fired, reved up a bit but died. Started again and it fired and held. Drove it to work. After work went to start it again, and nothing. Sputtered and died again. Then just cranking forever. Went under the hood and again… copious amounts of oil in the wells. This dime I simply took the plugs out, let the oil drain, cleaned the up, Put them in, and it fired up and was happy again.
Then about 3 weeks ago, I checked and found oil in the wells again. As per the “Oil in spark plug wells on a 92 accord video” That Eric made, I replaced the Spark tube seals and valve cover gaskets. Drove the car to work the next day. Went to leave after work and it again would not start. Just cranked and cranked. This time I noted That the spark wire 2nd closest to the distributor had been pushed out maybe an inch and a half. I pushed it back in as best I could (as far as I can tell it never went in all the way) and it didn’t help. I pulled the plugs and cleaned them a bit. Pulled the wires a few more times and then got it started.
On Friday I replaced the plugs with new plugs (NGKs again) thinking all the oil in the tube issues had fouled them up. I then ran the car all weekend and Monday without issue. Today I again, went to leave work and it would not start. I found that 2nd closest plug to the dizzy was popped out again. I pushed it in as hard as I could and it fired right up. Went about my business. Left the car alone for an hour and a half, then drove to the gas station to get gas. Tried to start it up and AGAIN it fired but coughed and died. This time it would catch a bit more than it had earlier today, but the 2nd closest wire to the dizzy was annoyingly not going in as well as I’d hoped. I did eventually get it to fire, I revved it up to 4k for a few seconds and then it was fine.
The thing is, I talked to my family’s mechanic (who is Honda focused) and he thought it odd that even with 3 of 4 cylinders, it should still start ok. He was worried it might be fuel delivery. I’m just worried the work I did to replace the tube seals may have disturbed something. I checked a bit ago and it looks like the underside of the dizzy is quite greasy. I am not sure if this is new, or has been there for a while. (It has always leaked a bit of oil. I probably have to add around a half quart ever few weeks) I recently replaced my exhaust from the cat back and already the tip of the muffler is BLACK so it is burning oil as well.
If you have read all of this up to here I thank you very much! If you have any thoughts as to what might be happening I would also be very grateful.
Thanks!
-
Replies
-
I’ve experienced the same thing before with my 96 Honda LX. What happens with the plug wires is something like this…the tolerances are fairly tight where the plug wire end goes down into the spark plug well and connects to the plug. When oil or moisture is present, either inside the boot or on the plug itself, it actually traps air when you push the boot in place (it becomes like a piston of sorts). This trapped air wants to escape and lifts the wire boot off the plug, “pops up.” When this happens, the spark sometimes grounds out to the car rather than the plug causing a misfire scenario. Get one or two to lift up, and you’ll have a heck of a time starting the car.
How I remedied this was….I removed the 4 plugs and cleaned the ceramic portions with a rag and a little brake clean. Alcohol would work just fine too. I also took the rag and a small screw driver and cleaned oil as best I could from the inside of the boots. Here is where the explanation is difficult…when I pushed the boots back down, I slowly wiggled them and manipulated them from side to side to allow the air to escape (you can feel the trapped air otherwise pushing back against you). On one or two, I used a long thin pick to vent the air as I pushed them in place. Eventually, after doing this with all 4, they were in place with no trapped air. It has been great ever since.
There might be more going on, but I’d start here. When I did this, I had the plugs out to help turn the engine more easily while doing a job. Anyways, it’s trapped air in the spark plug wells that causes this. I hope this helps you.One final thought, based on your experience, just one plug popping up made it hard to start. So I’d look here first before fuel delivery.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have noticed the trapped air when putting the plugs in and it is quite annoying. The wire to the right was a little difficult to get in as well but not as bad.
So to further stir the pot. I went out to look at the plug wire, and I pulled it out, yet the metal clip that connects to the plug remained connected to the plug. I had to remove it with a needle nose pliers. 🙁
So everyone says to use OEM wires for Hondas… anyone have any idea around how much those run?
🙁 check Ebay for the best prices. Do you have a pick and pull auto salvage nearby? Honda plug wires last a long time….
Don’t kill yourself over OEM, it is a 92 accord after all. Go pickup a set of silicone wires at NAPA, AZ, or Advance for $40. The bottom line is this: by plugging and unplugging constantly you essentially made the aging wires fail. You should have fixed the leak correctly from the get go. Do you currently get any oil in the spark plug tubes??
Second, I would venture to say your ignition system is weak to begin with.. I recommend replacing distributor rotor and cap. Make sure there is no oil on either of those when you take them apart (your comment on crud under distributor worries me). Install everything properly, use a little dielectric grease only on the ceramic portion of the spark plug, and make sure all the wires seat properly (don’t mix them up either).
Finally, if the car is still having a tremendous difficulty starting/staying on, your igniter might be worn out. I heard this part can get worn when there is high resistance in the spark delivery (i.e. Oil getting in between spark plug and wire boot). But then it could just be old as well. I had a similar issue with my honda, except it would run beautifully and suddenly die, and not want to restart. No pattern to the failure, just sometimes would not start/run. My diagnosis pointed to the igniter, but due to the high cost, it was more effective for me to replace the distributor as a unit. Car runs as it should now.
Good Luck
Thank you all for posting. I have just replaced the wires. I started it up and it fired right away. I let it warm up so the idle came down to normal and then shut it off. I then waited a few minutes and started it again and it fired right up again. I’m optimistic that we are at least on the right track.
Distributor Cap replacement is next on my list. I have cleaned up the grime underneath it to see if I can detect the source of the leak. In the back of my mind I’m a little worried I disturbed a seal over there while replacing the plug tube seals but we’ll see.
Thanks again everyone. As you can probably tell I’m rather new at auto repair so I appreciate any input you have.
Glad to hear you got it going again and that it was something relatively easy. Regarding the distributor…you can replace it if you want to… If it wasn’t a happy distributor though, you’d know because of misfires and other performance related issues. You likely have an oil leak from a bad seal between the cam and distributor. The valve cover has to be removed to get at that one…not a big deal. There should also be an o-ring around the base of the distributor. Either one of these could be the cause of your oil leak around the distributor. You essentially want to make sure the distributor is dry on the inside, with no signs of carbon tracking. If any oil or moisture has made it inside, you can clean this with brake cleaner. This will perhaps buy you some time. Then, maybe you could fix the leak and replace the distributor at same time? Thanks for letting us know how it turned out.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.