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Hey guys! Looks like my first post is a novel…
I’ve been beating my head against the wall for months trying to get this beater (pun intended) to idle. Here’s the back story…
My step-daughter didn’t have her license yet, but would soon need a car that could her back and forth to her job that is 1 mile away (she typically walks there and we pick her up at night). So we found this 89 Spectrum on CL and went to take a look. It ran strong and looked like a 25 year old car. She actually liked how dorky it is….lol… also my first car was an 87 Spectrum so I *thought* I would be halfway decent at fixing it up…
We drove it around, it ran strong, no major issues other than typical 25 year old car stuff. When you turned the car off, it spit and sputtered and shut down. Other than that, it was “fine” for what we needed it for, so we bought it.
The guy drove it back to our house about 30 minutes away, no issues. We did the tag and title thing, and that’s when the fun started. I decided, in my infinite wisdom, that I was going to start fixing things up and replacing the easy stuff. I wanted it to be reliable. I did plugs, cap, rotor, O2 sensor, temp sending unit, and started messing with the vacuum lines. I thought “I’ll just replace these old lines and we’ll be good to go when she gets her license!”
The car hasn’t been drivable since that day. B)
I found that lines were missing, they were routed differently from the schematic, etc. It was a mess. I later realized he had bypassed emissions devices and possibly also other valves/etc that could possibly be failing. I started attempting to “fix” all of it. “This line doesn’t go here, it goes over here. Isn’t there supposed to be a hose here? It looks like it goes to over there on the schematic.” For hours. And hours. I quickly realized there were 3 or 4 (or 5?) different size vacuum hoses and had to go shopping around. I couldn’t find everything I needed locally, so I had to order some online. That meant stopping work and not getting back to it for a week.
Go back in, try to change some more lines, the hoses I got aren’t quite the right size. And I’m still missing at least 2 sizes of hose. I already can’t remember exactly how it was routed when we got it. Back to online ordering.
Another week goes by. Change as much as I can. Try to start it. Won’t catch. Mess with it for hours. And hours.
Rinse and repeat.
After months (!!) of this, I’m finally able to nail down a friend who is extremely handy, works on his own vehicles, rebuilds motorcycles, used to race motorcycles, etc. We made it about 4 hours and got to the point where the car will run if you constantly feather the gas, but as soon as you drop it into Drive (eww, yes, it’s an automatic, too), the RPMs drop to the point where the engine has so little power you can’t even move forward. We officially give up, and I have no idea what to do. The car ran perfectly before I touched it. That’s the kicker.
Fast forward to today. We were gifted a 2005 Toyota Camry which will be my step-daughter’s. It’s a freaking awesome car. The Spectrum is now just sitting there costing me monthly insurance payments. Now we’re moving and I can’t move the car. I’m either going to have to have it towed to the new place so it can sit there and I can not know what to do with it, or I’ll have to rent a trailer to move it. Neither of those options are worth it, honestly. If I could at least get it running, I can drive it to the new place (less than 15 minutes away) and could sell it and make back a good portion of the money we dropped into it. It won’t be an easy sell even if it runs…if it doesn’t run it’s basically scrap.
So. The point of my post.
Can anyone explain to me what vacuum lines need to be hooked up at a minimum to make a carbureted engine run? Not concerned about emissions. I just want it to run. I even bought the original 1989 Geo shop manual for it, but there is zero information about the vacuum lines in there. It doesn’t even have the routing schematic that’s on the inside of the hood! It appears to be written for technicians who have a complete grasp of vacuum routing and how the engine actually works. Apparently I do not have that. lol…
I’ve done a ton of my own car repairs over the years (timing belts, heater cores, basic maintenance, etc) but I just do not have a grasp of what is going on with this carbureted engine.
ANY help would be greatly appreciated. I’m about to crumple this car up and throw it in the recycling bin.
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I’m no expert, but you said you replaced the rotor and cap. did you have it running after that but before you started on the vacuum lines?
[quote=”79chevy” post=134402]I’m no expert, but you said you replaced the rotor and cap. did you have it running after that but before you started on the vacuum lines?[/quote]
No, doing the plugs, wires, cap, and rotor was so basic I didn’t bother to test anything after doing it. When my friend came over to help, he pulled one of the plugs while we were cranking it and grounded it to the engine block and we saw a spark. I believe he said it was yellowish and should have been brighter white. I do know the guy we bought it from said it needs a new alternator, but again, it was running fine with the existing alternator before we started rerouting things.
I’m lost. 🙂
Plug off all vacuum lines at the intake and carburetor so that there are no vacuum ports in use, except PCV. The engine only needs air, fuel, and spark to run. You may get a check engine light come on, but ignore that for now. It should run and idle with all the vac lines plugged. Then, double-check that your spark plug wires are in the correct firing order, and check your base timing to make sure it is in spec. That is where I would start. Also, make sure the battery is fully charged. Side note: I have seen cases where a faulty alternator would actually cause the motor to stall. You may want to take the alternator to a parts store to have the free test done, just to see how bad it truly is. You might find out it may not be bad at all.
[quote=”cap269″ post=134452]Plug off all vacuum lines at the intake and carburetor so that there are no vacuum ports in use, except PCV. The engine only needs air, fuel, and spark to run. You may get a check engine light come on, but ignore that for now. It should run and idle with all the vac lines plugged. Then, double-check that your spark plug wires are in the correct firing order, and check your base timing to make sure it is in spec. That is where I would start. Also, make sure the battery is fully charged. Side note: I have seen cases where a faulty alternator would actually cause the motor to stall. You may want to take the alternator to a parts store to have the free test done, just to see how bad it truly is. You might find out it may not be bad at all.[/quote]
Interesting. I will definitely check that out. Actually as I was working my way through the old vacuum hoses, I was finding a TON of them were plugged with wire nuts or a bolt or I guess whatever the guy had lying around. A lot of them I didn’t even notice they were plugged because the hose was connected and routed but ended behind something blocking my view. It probably was almost all plugged off.
Do you think it would be worth it to go ahead and spend $100 on the alternator? The guy we got it from was convinced it needed a new one. He put a brand new battery in it (about 1 year old now) just so he could get away without replacing the alternator. He actually drove this car to work from time to time and it was fine, but he said you had to be careful driving it at night because of the draw from the lights.
I supposed I should pull the alternator and have it tested either way. The problem is no one stocks this model, so it would have to be ordered a few days in advance, so I couldn’t take a day to pull the old one, take it to have it tested, and come back with a new one.
Fun times. Thanks for the ideas!
So frustrating.
I attempted to plug off all the vacuum lines. I did the best I could, but I wish you guys could see how much of a mess this engine design is. There are some that I can barely see, let alone reach, let alone unhook with any hopes of ever hooking it back up. LOL. Some of them are little 1-2″ jumpers from one port to another. My theory is that they’ve been on there the whole time, so it should run without altering them.
I believe I plugged off all others. There has got to be 20+ vacuum lines and ports on this thing. I went to start it and the engine cranked, gave it gas, it started to catch, then just died no matter if I gave it gas or not. I was at this point a few months ago – same exact thing. Crank, it catches, then dies out almost immediately.
My friend and I had it in better shape than this before. It would run, but only if you kept giving it gas. I decided to try one more thing. I hooked up what I believe is the distributor advance (?) to a port directly on the engine (on the intake? right below the valve cover). Now it cranks, catches, runs REALLY smooth and strong for about 2-3 seconds, then dies out. LOL. That’s actually an improvement.
Any idea what my next plan of attack should be? What would make the engine catch, but then die? It seems like it’s either immediately losing fuel or air intake. That’s my guess…but I don’t know where to go. (note – while working on it I’m running it with the air cleaner housing completely removed, so it’s just the carb sitting in the open. not sure if that makes a difference.)
What amazes me is how strong the engine feels in that short time when it’s running. Kinda gives me renewed interest in fixing this thing instead of throwing it in the trash. 😛
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