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Original title: 1984 Honda Accord won’t stay running when below 70F
I’ve had this car since January and this problem started in March, gradually getting worse every month. It has 122K miles on it. The car will not stay running when the outside temperature is below 70F. In fact, the hotter it is outside, the better the car runs – opposite of most cars. I’ve replaced all of the following:Ignition switch
Ignition coil
Distributor (TEC), cap, rotor
Spark plugs & wires
Carburetor was rebuilt last month (damaged power valve)
Air filterThis car is ’84 so it has no computer of any sort, nor does any sort of check engine light exist on this car. No vacuum leaks. Cooling system works fine, the car has never overheated on me – although the thermostat housing leaks coolant quite a bit, so I have to refill it every couple of months. Oil was changed in December. Catalytic converter is not new, but it passed smog in March. EGR valve is ok. The best the car ever ran was on a 119-degree day three weeks ago. When the temperature sinks below 70F for a while, the car will start, but it will either stall immediately, or run fine for about 5 minutes and then stall down the road. Mechanics say something is causing resistance in the distributor, to which I agree – something is draining/killing the spark when the temperature gets below 70F. It is not a fuel/air problem, I’ve ruled that out. The stalling occurs regardless of whether gas is being applied or not, although it does tend to stall faster when giving it gas. After it stalls, it’s difficult to start again – and when it finally starts, it only stays on for a few seconds before dying again. If you try to accelerate during this short time frame, the car has extremely low power and will move very slowly, until it dies again.
During the day, sometimes I smell a strong odor of raw gasoline when coming to a complete stop. Sometimes, when going down the road, the engine will randomly misfire really badly for a second (feels like the transmission is harshly downshifting and like the car is going to stall), but always recovers immediately. The car also acts strange when you start it up after its been sitting for a few hours – it will act as though there is a vacuum leak (bouncing RPM needle, high idle, hesitation) but it always goes away after two minutes. On really hot days (110F+), this problem doesn’t occur at all.
Here’s an excerpt from a post I posted on another forum a couple of days ago, describing the last time I tried to drive the car at night:
[spoiler]Okay so last night I actually drove the car around for a while, and it stalled after a few minutes. But this was the strangest, more bizarre stall I’ve ever experienced in this car.
Temperature was about 65F outside, about 2 AM. Car ran fine for the first few minutes. I was going a steady 45-50mph on a straight, flat road with no traffic. All of a sudden, I can feel the car just beginning to slow down for no apparent reason, and my eyes quickly turn to the RPMs to see the needle very slowly sinking (from about 2200 since my foot was on the gas pedal). It was dropping very slowly – so slowly that it took about 15-20 seconds for the car to actually stall after I noticed the decrease in power. I could tell that the car was probably about to die so I steered to a safe spot where I could leave the car overnight, then walk home (only a few minutes away). But while the car was slowing down and RPMs sinking, I kept my foot on the gas pedal (not increasing nor decreasing it, just keeping it the same). I could feel less and less response from the gas pedal beneath my foot, until eventually there was no response at all.
I reached to turn on my hazards since I was still on a main road, but here’s where it gets really interesting: the hazards did not work when I hit the switch. I then noticed that the backlight(s) on my instrument panel were dimming, as well as my headlights. So now, not only was the engine slowly shutting down – but now my electrical was affected too. That’s never happened before since I got this car. There was a bit of shuddering, like the engine was suddenly running on just 3 cylinders, and then two (if that’s even possible) so I finally let my foot off the gas (which wasn’t working anymore anyway). Suddenly, my instrument panel and headlights were fine again and my hazards worked. After the car finally came to a complete stop, everything else was fairly typical. Hard starting, but eventually successful (only to have the car immediately die again within two seconds every time). After waiting a few minutes, then starting the car up again – it would start and run for a little longer, like 10-15 seconds before cutting out. Each of those times, when I tried to accelerate (limping the car down the shoulder just to see how far I could get it) – extreme lack of power. RPM would not go past 1400, and the car would move like a grandma – no matter how hard I pressed the gas. Very low power, and eventually stalling.
So I figure this episode of stalling might actually be a little helpful, just given how particularly bizarre and oddly-specific the process of stalling was. My car’s electrical being affected (lights dimming) was a first, especially since it only did that while I had the gas pedal pressed while the car was slowly dying. How extremely odd. The sheer lack of power was surreal, I wish I could have recorded it. And of course, all of this occurs within the context of the outside temperature being below 70F.[/spoiler]
I had the alternator and battery tested at AutoZone this afternoon. Both tested perfectly fine, but the “starter failed the test” according to their mechanic. He didn’t give me any more details about the specifics. The starter seems fine to me and unrelated to my stalling problem. Anyway, what could be killing the spark when the temperature gets below 70F outside? I can’t find any answers to this anywhere on the internet and mechanics are just as baffled as I am. I’ve had a couple of users suggest that there could be some intermittent ground fault somewhere on the car…
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It sounds like it is flooding. If there is a return hose to the gas tank, make sure it´s clear. Also, the vent hose from the tank should be checked. If you run the car without the tank lid on, are the symptoms still the same ?
I´m assuiming that it´s a carb on your car ? I´ld probably look into that. Needle valve and float hight etc….
If you smell petrol, I´ld search for the culprit in that system. The theory about increasing resistance in the ignition system seems a bit far fetched. A cold engine that won´t run smoothly COULD be because of moisture, but silicone spray should cure that easily.
I’d have a look at your automatic choke system, particularly the bimetallic thermostatic coil spring.
If things are out of whack, or the coil spring is completely fubar, the system’s ability to read temperature correctly is compromised. The choke could be coming on, at least partially, when it isn’t required. That could explain the rough running, the raw fuel odor, and the poor performance below 70F.
Yeah I’m also saying carb. Doesn’t sound like its setup properly. At first it sounded like your choke isn’t setup correctly. But then the electrical issue……..
Start with doing the basic carb setup and make sure you set the choke up properly with the engine as cold as possible preferably have it parked overnight. Then lets see what happens.Thank you three for your responses. My carburetor is still under warranty, so I’ve called the shop and will bring the car in on Thursday.
Just in the last 24 hours, the car is running even rougher and there is noticeably worse fuel economy. I made a trip to the supermarket yesterday afternoon, and the car had very low power and sluggish acceleration. Apologies to the frustrated drivers behind me…anyway the bimetal thermostatic coil sounds plausible – maybe it burnt out. I was busy with work yesterday so I couldn’t get to checking out the fuel system, but I’ll take a look later today.
I’m going to drop the car off at the carb shop tomorrow, I spoke to the owner on the phone this afternoon. He wants me to leave the car overnight so that he can observe the stalling behavior himself and figure out what’s wrong. I’d be open to do that, but the shop is an hour away from my house and we have no (decent) public transportation….
The mechanic at the carb shop called me yesterday and told me that he got the car to keep stalling on him while he tried to diagnose the problem, to see if it was choke-related. I don’t have much details at the moment, but he says the engine is stalling because of a “no fuel” condition. He told me that he wanted to further narrow down the source of the problem (clogged fuel filters, bad fuel pump, etc), but he would have to charge me $85-115 to do so. I don’t have that money right now so I told him I’ll just pick it up (I can’t get there until Tuesday).
In the mean time, is it worth purchasing a new fuel pump? All the ones on rockauto are electronic, and go for $20-30.
Bumping this topic since it fell off to the second page rather quickly and I could use your feedback.
Okay I finally got the car back home today. I talked to the mechanic for a while, and he explained how the fuel would just shut off, causing it to stall. He says the next step would be to test the fuel pressure, which I agree. I tried to coax him into telling what he thought the problem is likely to be, but he kept insisting on checking the fuel pressure next. He mentioned that it’s possible that there could be a short in the wiring to the fuel pump as well.
Anyway, the car handled an hour-long drive home in 110F heat pretty well, except for generally low power the whole way. My service manual was in the car, so now that I have it back, I’ve been combing through it all evening checking out exactly how the fuel delivery system in my car works. Fortunately, the fuel pump is not inside the gas tank, but next to it behind the rocker panel, held up by a bracket. The manual also extensively explains how and where to test for fuel pressure, and the what fuel pressure is supposed to be (16.7-21.6 kPa/2.4-3.1 psi). Tomorrow I might head down to AutoZone to rent a fuel pressure gauge from them. The manual says to hook it up to the fuel line just ahead of the fuel filter next to the carburetor. And on top of that, the manual also thoroughly explains how to test all related parts (fuel pump cut-off relay, sending unit) to see if they’re working properly.
He concluded that the spark is good, and the choke and carburetor are all working perfectly. I’m going to park the car in my garage and get back to you guys with results over the next few days.
did you try spraying some starter fluid into the intake and see if that helped???
now I noticed that you check the pressure feul how was that…. also did you check the flow too with a gaudge…. because you can have pressure but not have a good flow… in some rare things like a clogged line or a broken line… you can have the pressure but not the flow,,, also I saw you where going to change your fuel pump but did you also replace your fuel filter?A bit out of left field, but I would look at the ignition switch and the wiring in the steering column. After 32 years of service, it wouldn’t be a surprise to find things are a bit worn and sloppy, causing an intermittent fault.
At this point, I’m inclined to put the 70F temp limit in the category of coincidence, at least for now.
[quote=”Rob781″ post=170808]did you try spraying some starter fluid into the intake and see if that helped???
now I noticed that you check the pressure feul how was that…. also did you check the flow too with a gaudge…. because you can have pressure but not have a good flow… in some rare things like a clogged line or a broken line… you can have the pressure but not the flow,,, also I saw you where going to change your fuel pump but did you also replace your fuel filter?[/quote]
I did not try starter fluid, but I did hook up a spark tester to the #1 plug and cranked the engine (or at least tried) while waiting for the tow truck yesterday – didn’t see any spark. Not sure what that means yet. Mechanic told me this morning that if the no-spark has anything to do with the distributor, they won’t charge me a dime for diagnosis and repair – since they’re the ones who installed that distributor a couple of months back.Fuel pressure/bad fuel pump is possible, but I don’t think that would cause the strange cranking noise you hear in the video. I did replace both fuel filters a few days ago, and the car ran slightly better afterwards (until yesterday). Still praying that the timing belt didn’t break.
[quote=”Evil-i” post=170812]A bit out of left field, but I would look at the ignition switch and the wiring in the steering column. After 32 years of service, it wouldn’t be a surprise to find things are a bit worn and sloppy, causing an intermittent fault.
At this point, I’m inclined to put the 70F temp limit in the category of coincidence, at least for now.[/quote]
Ignition switch was replaced back in March. The 70F thing is still a mystery to me, but now I’ve got an even bigger problem.
did you check the other spark plugs or did you just stop at #1??? because if you get spark at others but not just one the distribitor cap, coil, spark plug wire… because then you would have a very short list of things it can be… it could even be like a failing crank or cam sencor… that is acting up… but that is slim but a posiblity… basicly ramdimaly not fire
I would take the cap off and look at the wiprer and cap to see if they are going bad…. and pay close attantion to the middle contact area for dirt and burn in… so if you have hany dout if they are bad…. I would replace them caps and wipers are like $20 so not ot expresive… and have a noramal life of like 30k-40k… I think… but maybe someone else could say the average change time is[quote=”Rob781″ post=170843]did you check the other spark plugs or did you just stop at #1??? because if you get spark at others but not just one the distribitor cap, coil, spark plug wire… because then you would have a very short list of things it can be… it could even be like a failing crank or cam sencor… that is acting up… but that is slim but a posiblity… basicly ramdimaly not fire
I would take the cap off and look at the wiprer and cap to see if they are going bad…. and pay close attantion to the middle contact area for dirt and burn in… so if you have hany dout if they are bad…. I would replace them caps and wipers are like $20 so not ot expresive… and have a noramal life of like 30k-40k… I think… but maybe someone else could say the average change time is[/quote]I didn’t check the other plugs, I thought one not having spark was enough. There are no crankshaft position or cam sensors on my car, that I know of at least. Someone mentioned an oxygen sensor, there is one on my car – a receipt from the previous owner shows that it was replaced in 2010. Distributor cap is only three weeks old. Also, what “wiper” are you referring to?
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