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I have a 2006 Honda Pilot with 143k miles on it. Every once in a while when I start the car the engine feels like it’s about to stall but then kicks over right away. This problem used to only occur once in a blue moon, but recently it has been occurring more often. I recently had the spark plugs changed at the dealership in addition to new front brake pads and some fluid changes. I also had the battery and alternator tested out at Auto-zone and those both checked out OK. I do have a check engine light that goes on and off intermittently with a code of P0420 which the dealership identified as a bad catalytic converter, they assured me though that it wouldn’t necessarily affect the vehicles performance but that I may not get the same gas mileage as before and that I would only need to worry about that when it comes time for me to do emissions testing, at which point I probably will replace it. Anyways I’ve done a little bit of research and I’m starting to think that this may have something to do with the fuel pump wearing out or the fuel injectors being dirty and needing to be cleaned. However I did also have the fuel system cleaned out this past summer so I’m thinking that may not be the problem. But The throttle body could probably use a cleaning. What are your guys thoughts on this?
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see if this helps.
http://www.ericthecarguy.com/faq/solving-automotive-no-start-problems
Troubleshooting: Fuel, Air, Spark
Basic tune ups are good to do. You can easily clean the throttle body and intake components with carb cleaner and a rag. As far as the fuel system, Honda fuel systems are pretty good. (says Eric, a few others, and my car) I will occasionally put seafoam in the system but its not often necessary unless you drive your car less than a 1/4 tank often as sediment from the bottom of the tank can get sucked into the lines. If you really wanna you can do a fuel pressure test to see if its up to par. If not then it may be a clogged fuel filter.
You can tell if the fuel pump is bad by listening to it. It will make a loud whining noise that you can hear by the tank filler if its bad. But I doubt thats it.
The simplest thing is to check your air filter if you haven’t already.
Whats coming to mind is a clogged exhaust. If your cat converter is damaged and clogged that will choke your engine. It will take a moment to adjust when starting up if it needs to work harder to exhaust.
As far as the 0420, its not always the cat converter. Since it’s a pilot I’m assuming a V6 with two banks. So the code should specify which cat, unless there is only one. But it can be the downstream o2 sensor or and exhaust leak too. You can verify this by a few tests:
- Knock on the cat converter with a tool. If you hear rattling then the honeycomb inside is broken and you need a new one.
- Use an IR Thermometer if you have one and measure the temp before and after the cat converter with the engine warmed up and at 2500RPM
- Have autozone scan the car but take a look at the upstream and downstream voltages. At 2500rpm you should see the two voltages changing but not consistently the same as each other. If the two are the same voltages then you have a poisoned cat converter that is not working.
I only suggest these things because I find that many dealers just change parts on older cars rather than repair. Plus they can make a lot of money off a new one. Edit: EPA Law states that cat converters are under warranty for 8 years or 80,000 miles
If you do need a new cat converter and there is no warranty then look on eBay. A quick search tells me that you do not have to pay more than $230 for a new one. They are also bolt on’s so you could do it yourself if you’re good with bolts. Or you can pay a trusted mechanic. It shouldn’t be more than an hour or so. Also, often times the downstream and/or upstream o2 sensors should be replaced with the cat converter. If you need to also search on eBay. First go to Denso’s site to find the correct part for your car. I paid $40 for an upstream Denso sensor. Thats basically OEM Honda. Anywhere else would be $80-300. And always ask for the old part. You can sell your old cat converter and get around $100 back for it.
And the last thing is that if you have an 0420 and your cat converter has gone bad then that usually means there’s an underlying issue. Coolant or excess oil can get into the exhaust and poison the cat converter. Or your car can run extremely hot and destroy it. These are problems that are often missed or unknown and the converter is just replaced.
Basically a bad cat converter itself won’t cause any damage but it may mean there’s another problem. Then again a pretty hard smack by an object on the road can break it apart too.
So verify the issue soon and don’t pay anymore for the repairs than you have to.
Thats my speech.
Honda fuel pumps rarely go bad. In fact, in the 10 years I worked on them I only replaced 3. Two of those were aftermarket pumps. In sort, forget about the fuel pump. As for the rest of the fuel system, you might try an injection cleaning but I don’t think it will do much good.
I’m wondering if your coolant has air in it, or if your coolant temp sensor is functioning properly. If the cooling system has air in it, or the coolant temp sensor is having issues, it can throw off the air fuel mix. This can also damage a catalytic converter. That said, I would recommend you first check for air in the system by bleeding it out. Here’s a video on how to do that. Don’t worry that you don’t have a bleeder valve, just do everything else as demonstrated in the video. Also, if you can get your hands on a scan tool, take a look at the coolant temp reading. First do it with the engine off and cold. Then check the temperature of the coolant to see if they’re close. If they are then you’re probably OK. If not, then there might be an issue with the sensor and it would need to be replaced. You can also check the temp in the same way with the engine warm. You want to do this so that you know the sensor can function properly. So check it both cold and warm to see if it’s reading accurately.
Keep us posted on your progress.
Well I know the catalytic converter is bad and I was also told by the dealership that there is a very small leak at the bottom of the radiator, which I discovered after looking down there with a flashlight. I only had to fill it up twice within the last 6 months and only a very small amount. I may replace the radiator in the summer time if I have to.
Didn’t see the video link posted on this thread but I assume you’re referring to the video in which you bleed out the cooling system on that Honda Civic. I have yet to try this out. Though I’m not sure that there is air in the cooling system, I suppose it wouldn’t hurt to bleed it out.If I understand you correctly you’re saying that it is hesitant to crank and then cranks normally and starts?
It sounds like the battery doesn’t have enough cold crank amps to start the engine turning. Once it starts to crank the battery is powerful enough to keep it turning. I would have the battery tested by someone else. Do you have any idea how old it is? If it’s more than 3 years old you might consider replacing it. Could also be a poor cable connection somewhere or even a starter that’s getting tired.
As a matter of fact I did have the battery checked out and charged a few weeks ago when I got a new alternator at the Honda dealership. At which point the battery was at about 89%. the last time we replaced it was in August 2009. AAA replaced the battery. I know that typically when you replace an alternator you should replace the battery as well, but they said that it had enough juice in it that they could charge it up and it would be OK. So far so good. This had actually been a problem for sometime before the alternator went so I don’t believe it is related to the battery.
There still could be an issue with the battery or it’s connections. The testing for this was outlined in the article College man posted for you. Batteries usually last about 4-5 years and if you had yours put in in ’09, then it’s likely you’re due.
That said, don’t bother bleeding out the cooling system until you replace the radiator. The continued coolant loss can mess up the coolant temp sensor readings which help calculate the fuel mixture, especially on start up. It would also be a good idea to address this before it starts to get warmer and you start running your AC.
Keep us posted.
Thanks for your advice guys! Eric I do plan to replace the radiator hopefully very soon as I may be moving down to Virginia in the next couple months. Honestly I have looked down to see the leaking coolant and it’s barely anything at all compared to what you recently discovered in your Honda Element. Still though if I am going to be traveling a long distance I do want to address this issue before hand. I should probably also replace the catalytic converter while I’m at it, but right now it’s just an intermittent check engine light and it already passed emissions in the state of CT so I’m not too worried about it at this point. I will check the battery out again and have it tested. I know the terminals should be clean because I cleaned them myself with a wire brush not long ago.
So far the car’s running fine aside from the once in a while slow start up that I mentioned earlier. It never stalls out or anything like that though.
I really think your issue is the battery or a bad battery cable connection. The only other thing I can think of that would cause it to crank slowly would a problem with the starter itself.
As far as the radiator goes, and Eric may not agree with this, and opinions are like a…., but I would not put another factory radiator back on the Pilot. There is a fairly well known issue with radiators used in the 06-10 Pilots and Ridgelines. I think it affects the MDX as well. Honda sourced radiators that used to different types of metals on the transmission line connections. If you see it leaking near the bottom and it may be coming out of one of the transmission lines, replace it immediately. If not, you may get coolant in your transmission and it would be toast after that.
yes I agree with you about the factory oem radiators. really any modern day radiator is prone to leaking because they’re all made of plastic now and if you’ve ever seen any of Scotty Kilmer’s videos on youtube you’ll know that plastic parts, especially radiators often get brittle and crack with age.
As for the leak it is coming from the bottom around there the metal lining on the core meets the plastic on the botton, but not on the outer plastic part of the radiator itself, and to my knowledge it is not leaking from the transmission lines. those look ok.
it doesn’t crank slowly, but when it cranks and is ready to turn over it feels like it’s gonna stall out but doesn’t and then it just turns over like nothing ever happened. cables look ok, but I will check on them again as I do plan to head to auto zone probably tomorrow and have my battery tested.
If it’s intermittent and seemingly getting worse it could easily be the starter. You have to do a current draw test on the starter to check what kind of amperage it is drawing. Over time the space between the contacts will open up creating a spot that requires more amperage to bridge the gap. Eventually this will create a dead spot in the starter, causing your vehicle not to start.
I apologize but I seriously have no clue how to test this without professional grade equipment.
We check starter draw on every car that comes in with a cranking issue even if something like the battery is obviously toast.
That is good. I would be extra diligent though to make sure it may not be dripping down from one of those connectors.
http://www.piloteers.org/forums/69-2003-2008-pilot/32050-replace-radiator-insurance-100k.html
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