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Hi,
I am new here and have watch bunch of Eric’s videos which were really helpful. I really hope Eric and members here can help me out. Please bear with me since the story is a little long.
I have a 2002 Toyota Sienna with ~120K miles (bought 2005, 2nd owner). The van has been consuming excessive oil for years when driving on highway while driving locally is a lot better. Got CEL P1354 (VVT timing), misfire and low oil pressure a year ago. I replaced timing belt/water pump/oil pump/OCV filters and those codes went away. The van runs okay but consumes even more oil. We were seeing it puffs a little blue smoke at cold start sometime but not very often. Van is slightly sludged but not too much. Two weeks ago it thrown out P1354 (again) and a flashing CEL (misfire?). Wife drove it home (about 3 miles). When I was checking and started it, it kept generating a lot white/blue smoke and didn’t look like to stop. I let it run (idle) for about a minute then shut if off. I replaced the OCV (oil control valve, per p1354) and started it again, still smoke like crazy. I am not sure if I should let it idle/smoke for a longer time so I shut it off in a minute. I checked all spark plugs (less than 3000 miles old) and they are black (running rich?) and a little bit of oil on one or two threads of #1, 3, 5, 6. Then I did a compression (after watching Eric’s video) test with below result.
Dry: 1/3/5 = 120/75/105, 2/4/6 = 192/188/120
Wet: 6 = 220I didn’t do wet test for 1/3/5 since they are not vertical so I am not sure if the result will be accurate. I am planning to do a leak down test (just learned from Eric’s video) soon.
I think cylinder 6 has a ring issue.Does the low compression on those 4 cylinders (1,3,5,6) cause the heavy smoke? Is it possible the rear bank has a bad head gasket or timing issue since all 3 cylinders 1,3,5 have low compression? Why it produce so much smoke all the sudden? Would running rich or a bad CAT cause the smoke?
I would appreciate if anyone can share some information on this issue.
Thanks,
Cary
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Replies
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Koinonia,
Thanks for the reply. I did checked the coolant level and it is fine. Doesn’t look like any coolant missing and the coolant is near the “max” line of the tank.
Thanks,
CaryIt sounds like your engine may need some major work. Specifically when you mentioned those compression numbers. Anything below 150 on a Toyota is not good.
The 3.0 had issues with sludge, but not really an oil burning problem like the 1.8 had (oil return holes on piston too small) unless the engine gets sludged.
It does sound like you have a compression issue with the rear bank (doesn’t that always seem to happen to the hard to reach one…) and will require a leak down test to determine actually what is wrong (blown head gasket, crack, burned valves).
If oil was not changed frequently on a 3.0, sludge would develop and get over EVERYTHING…. I recommend a 3k oil change for a 3.0 engine.
Here is a link which shows how bad the sludge could get and explains the problem a bit.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html
You may want to pull the valve cover off your front bank and take a look.
All the best,
-Karl
Thanks Karl,
I had opened the front valve cover at least twice but not the rear one. I am attaching pictures of under the front valve cover. I would say the engine is slightly sludged.. We have been driving the van for years and never feel it is lack of power. It runs great even compare to a 2014 Sienna without big difference. Should we feel a big power loss if the compression test result like that? I have been changing oil every 3K miles, dino oil because it burns synthetic even worse. How come the problem happened so sudden while the cylinder leaking (Low compression) should be a long time careless result.
I will do the compression test one more time and perform a leak down test.
Thanks,
CaryI would call that moderate sludge…
Here is just my opinion..
About why no lack of power over time? The 3.0 is a great engine, the sludge was the only issue…they had to re-design the valve cover baffles to stop this problem, other than that, I have seen these go 300k miles… It is a very hearty and stout engine.
Why the compression problem? My guess is it could be overheating due to improper oil flow… the oil passages get restricted… It was not uncommon to see a broken cam in this engine due to this issue. If the head overheated, and since this is an all aluminum engine, there could be warpage…. Again, this is just speculation…
As far as power loss, yes with numbers like that I would expect it… Also to comment on your #6 rise in compression… That looks really out of whack to rise 100 psi on a wet test… I would re-check that… Seems very unusual.. (not to say that the rings may not be worn)
As far as your last sentence… How it happened so suddenly, if you have a crack or warp in the head, it can appear very suddenly… That #3 is where you should focus your attention on…. Could be a burned or gunked up/bent (sticking) valve (and a burned valve would be all of a sudden)…
Also, Is the VVT working properly and timed properly… Timing being off can result in low compression numbers, but that #3 is really low…
JMHO
-Karl
Thanks again Karl,
I will re-test the compression and perform a leak down test. I will update with new numbers. BTW, I understand I need to turn the piston to TDC to do the leak down, is inserting a screwdriver in the spark plug hole the best method? I would like to be sure to get the TDC.
Cary
I agree with ToyotaKarl, sounds like you’ve got major engine issues. I’d recommend replacement over trying to rebuild it. You can ask ToyotaKarl about that, also, this video.
In addition, take a good look at the rest of the vehicle. If the engine is in that kind of shape, it could be that the rest of the vehicle is in the same or worse shape. If that’s the case, you might be better off looking for a replacement vehicle.
Good luck and keep us posted
The screwdriver is a tried and true method, just get it on the top of the compression stroke and not 180 out on exhaust… But if you do.. if you do get it backwards, it should be pretty obvious when you have no pressure building.
Thanks Karl and Eric.
For replacing the engine what figure of cost (an estimate of engine and labor) are we looking for?
Cary
This is my estimation… FWIW you have a 1MZ-FE engine for reference in the future
A junkyard engine depending on mileage may be anywhere from $600 to $1500 depending on where you are (assuming you are in the Continental United States)
A rebuilt Long block (one with heads) may be $1700-2500+ depending on who does it…
Go to Ebay and enter ‘2002 Sierra engine’… then do a search starting at highest price…
Overall you are probably looking at at least 10-15 hours labor… A U.S. Average of tech labor is $75-$100 an hour..
There are also other things that go into it (lubricants, coolant, etc) maybe another $200-$500 depending on the shop…
I figure you can do the math…
Hope this helps…
-Karl
If your getting a vvt code then the vvt solenoid or sensor probably needs replaced, they can cause issues if they are stuck in full advance or retard mode. Might start there if it’s the cheapest route
The van has been sitting in the garage for a while, I don’t want to work in a cold garage. Weather is good now and I just did some more test. The leak down tester from Harbor Freight is not so good however it may still mean something. So when I apply compressed air into the cylinder I got the following. It is really strange and I can not understand at all. So I am hoping someone from here can show some light.
1. Apply compressed air to cylinder 2, air escapes from cylinder 6 and the dip stick hole.
2. Apply compressed air to cylinder 4, air escapes from cylinder 2 and the dip stick hole.
3. Apply compressed air to cylinder 6, air escapes from cylinder 4 and the dip stick hole.
4. Apply compressed air to cylinder 1, air escapes from cylinder 5 and the dip stick hole.
5. Apply compressed air to cylinder 3, air escapes from cylinder 1, (not from dip stick hole).
6. Apply compressed air to cylinder 5, air escapes from cylinder 3 and the dip stick hole.Each cylinder is at the TDC when testing it. Cracked head gasket? then why air would escape from c2 to c6, c6 to c4 but not c6 to c2? Cracked block? The coolant is very clean, no oil in it. It doesn’t lose any coolant either. No over heating so far. Leaking from oil dip stick hole indicates bad ring. Even c2 and c4 had air escape from the dip stick hole although their compression test is 192 and 188.
Any clue? Thanks in advance…
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