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Hi Eric ! (or anybody that can help in fact :P)
I got rid of my 2002 Mazda rustbucket last winter (Feb 2014) and replaced it with a 2005 Saturn Ion Quad-Coupe Level 3 (yeah… speak about short model names….)
exactly like that :
Here’s the strange problem I’m having :
When the engine is cold, no matter if it’s -27C or 30C, it stalls when I press the clutch, after backing up slowly.
in clear, here a the steps I do when this happens :
Press the clutch
start the car
put in reverse
release clutch slowly, giving a few slight revs
car reverse a few feet (say, out a driveway)
Push brakes, push clutch aaaand
car dies…wait what ?push clutch again
turn key
car starts fine, unable to make it stall again …ooookay…It does that only in reverse, and only when the engine is cold…Once I restart it, it runs smooth like new… it’s not shaking, no check engine, no fumes…
had 3 recalls done by GM about the stalling troubles they had while driving, but mine never had those troubles…
Any clues what could be the problem ?
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Hello Gardakan, no sure fix to give you but here are my thoughts. The vehicle MIGHT have a switch tied to the clutch that prevents starting the car with the clutch engaged. If your car has cruise control that same switch (or another) would tell the cruise control to disengage when you depress the clutch pedal. I’d start by learning about those switches, how and when they operate and go from there. I know that does not address the cold/warm engine factor you speak of, but again it is where I would start. Good luck!
Try letting the engine warm up for a minute or so before you try to drive. See if anything changes. I think the fact that it’s doing it in reverse is coincidence. It’s probably because reverse just happens to be the first gear you’re driving in. Let us know what happens if you let it warm up.
@ sunset : the car does not start if clutch is engages (pedal released) as most manual cars will do.
As for the cruise, it’s usually only possible to turn it on at around 50-60Km/h on most cars, so just leaving my driveway would not send signal to the cruse to activate or desactivate no ? (just a theory here, as electrical problems might give all kind of troubles… I know, I’m a computer tech…)
@ thisisbuod,
Thinking about it now, It seems to me as if it suffer from fuel starvation at first…
If I rev it like just a few 100 revs (just a quick touch of the gas pedal), it does not just return to idle straight away, it kinda drops lower, front lights dims and it resumes to normal operating idle in a second. It does not seems to like that one bit…
Now, for the “happening in forward gears”, In 1st gear, it does not have that chance to do it basically, because usually, when I park in reverse, to leave in forward, I just put it in first an go, so it does not have time to rev back to idle.
Thinking of it now, I do remember it a few times doing the same while in 1st gear, when i left from work… just rolling forward a few feet then pressing the clutch, then it died…
Hmmmm…
As for letting it heat up : during winter, I do not drive until heat start to rise in cluster (usually 3-5 minutes) and still had the same issue, it seems as if it’s only the first time it moves that this weird problem happens…
I’d have to see live data from a scanner to see what happens at that very moment…
Live data would definitely help.
It sounds like more of a recovery issue rather than a “fuel starvation” or “cut off” issue. Try spraying cleaner into the throttle body. I’m guessing it’s either the TPS or AIC. Throttle body cleaner should clean both of these. It’s a 10 year old car, so it is a good idea to hit it with some cleaner regardless.
If you want to get it thoroughly cleaned; take the throttle body off and soak it, then scrub it with a tooth brush. Keep in mind you’ll need to buy a new seal (and probably two cans of cleaner). Keep in mind; it’s an aluminum intake, so you are going to want to borrow a torque wrench. You can easily strip aluminum threads with a steel bolt.
These Ecotech motors are (in my opinion) the best thing to ever come out of GM. They are very reliable (if maintained correctly).
You may want to look into changing that fuel filter and getting an intake system cleaning.The clutch switch I’m referring to could be a combination switch, one that prevents the starter from working unless the clutch is depressed as well as disengaging the cruise control (when activated) if the clutch pedal is depressed. There is also a cruise control disengagement switch tied to the brake pedal that disengages the cruise control (when activated) when the brake pedal is applied. Checking those out is pretty easy and might eliminate electrical problems so you could turn to live data and system cleaning as mentioned in other replies.
I don’t know where you read about these switches, but we have no reason to assume it’s electrical. If we later get evidence that points toward an electrical issue, those switches would still be very very very unlikely.
Like i said, this sounds like a recovery issue.
I am pretty familiar with these motors. I have a 2003 Cavalier.Ok so today, I bought a can of carb/throttle cleaner and cleaned that little throttle body…
Once the air intake tube was removed (a 7mm bolt, a sensor plug and unclipping the air box…), I was in for a shock…
First of all, removing the 4 10mm bolts on the throttle body was a joke… if all mechanical issues could be that easy…
On top, the throttle plate was slightly brass/golden looking, not that bad looking.
[IMG]http://i60.tinypic.com/289udj.jpg[/IMG]
that’s when I turned it upside down, I almost screamed ! hahahahaha
Holy sh*t that’s filthy in there ! :O
And no, it’s no shadow effect… the walls are THAT dirty… good lord…
[IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/200a0xi.jpg[/IMG]
Took me about 30 minutes to clean it until it’s bare aluminium, gray and shiny…
Re installation was done in 2 minutes and I started the car (it was 7c outside…)
No stalling or trying to when I played with the throttle, no problems when going in reverse, I even left the driveway using only the clutch… NO WAY ! it seems to be fixed ! :O
One thing i saw immediately is how the “cold idle” was more normal at around 1500 rpm ( it was barely going over 1000 before cleaning…)
I’ve never Ever thought that only a dirty throttle body would cause such an annoying “problem”…
Looking at the ammount of gunk that was there, the guy who had the car before never cleaned that… Oh well… seeing how the air filter was when I went to pick up the car the first time…
[IMG]http://i61.tinypic.com/e66n1y.jpg[/IMG]
I’ll see tomorrow after a night in the cold if it’s back to normal operation or if the trouble is still there… So far so good 😉
Cool! An ounce of prevention….
Always start with the simplest things.
Let us know how it does in the morning.Ok so I did not have time today to try the car (taking care of my mom, driving her to the city for shopping is more important in my book 😉 )
i’m about to go test it and take it on a little ride to take some “sunset pictures” around town… I’ll let you know later how it turned out… My guess is that it will run like new.
I saw the garage rags I used to put the throttle body on… they used to be gray… Still can’t believe how dirty that thing was !
Now, I bought a fuel filter while in town (24$, FRAM) to replace it but I discovered that I need a “special” tool to unhook it from the fuel line… and knowing no parts store around my mom’s place have those, i’ll just end up making one myself…don’t feel like driving 30 minutes to get a 8$ tool, and I’m not so hot to the idea of buying a tool just for a one time job… Or maybe I can borrow one from the dealer, as it’s right up the street…
After that, i’ll only have to replace the roll pin on the transmission shifter linkage and i’ll finally have a decent working car 😛
Just don’t force the lines when doing the fuel filter. Once the tool disengages the internal tabs in the fuel line it should come off with almost no resistance. Put some engine oil on the ends of the new fuel filter before you install it. This will avoid damaging the ‘o’ rings.
I recommend getting this for a one time use:http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0058SGMB0/ref=sr_1_10_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1430702613&sr=8-10&keywords=quick+disconnect+tool&condition=newDo me a favor; post a photo of the lines coming to the filter. You may not have quick connect lines. Around this production year GM randomly threw these fuel lines on their cars that look like quick connects, but actually are not. If your car has this, you won’t need any tool.
I’m glad to hear that the problem is likely resolved! It was not my intent to lead down a bad road. I did not read anywhere about these switches being a Saturn problem, my suggestion comes from early Nissan experience where these switches were problematic and caused a variety of unusual behaviors. Good job thisisbuod!
Thanks bud. I have found that cleaning the throttle body is a cheap fix for a variety of problems on older engines. It’s usually my first peice of advice if I see the engine is more than 10 years old.
I gained the trust, and loyalty, of a lot of customers because of this. People get real happy when they are expecting a $300+ mechanic bill and we just charge them for 30 minutes labor and a $10 gasket. It doesn’t pay me much, but in the long run I do ok cause they refer friends and will only let me touch their car.
Unfortunately, this attitude isn’t common in my profession. Many mechanics only think about the short term and try to squeeze as much as they can out of every customer. This not only makes the customer dislike that shop, but gives all mechanics a bad stigma. I did cable for 8 years, and it’s the same story in that profession.
I didn’t mean to be rude, by the way. I was being concise.
I’ve never heard of that issue (with the pedal sensors). I’ll have to remember it.No worries-it’s all good. I did not take your comments as rude. We’ll never see everything in this lifetime that can go wrong with vehicles. For me that is what keeps it interesting. I’ve always tried to work for the customers benefit. I’ve never known an honest mechanic without a following and a backlog of work. I’ve never gone hungry or been without work to do…….. Be well!
Ok so a little update :
Car starts up fine, idle fine, no more stalling when reverse (WOOOHOOOO !), no more upset when I tap the gas pedal…
BUT….
Now, when I drive and I press the clutch, to change gear,no matter where the revs are, the revs dont go down instantly like they used to, they kinda stick to where they are for a few sec, before starting to drop !?!?!
It was not doing that before the cleaning so I prsume It can only be related to what I removed that day…
I’ve double checked every connexions I had to unplug (throttle body and air sensor near air box, unplugged and replugged them and no change…
This car is haunted ! hahahahaha
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